55th Gordon Highlanders - Info please!

[Charlotte R]

Im trying to get as much information on the 55th Gordon Highlanders. My Great Grandfather served with them in WW1. I know he was injured once and was then sent back. He was then injured again on 11/11/18 (very bad timing!) I have inherited quite a lot of his military memoribilia, uniform, documents etc. I took these to an "Antiques Roadshow" type event and was told that he would have been based in Bedford. This came as a bit of a surprise as I moved from Lancashire where he joined up to about 40 minutes away from where he would have been based! I always thought his Regiment would have been based in the North West or indeed Scotland. Any information I can get would be immensley helpful, as I would love to be able to find out more about what my Grandad did or where he was in WW1. Thanks in advance

[Guest]

Hi Charlotte. Do you mean the 1/5th Gordon Highlanders ?

What was your Grandfather's name?

Mike

[Charlotte R]

Hi Charlotte. Do you mean the 1/5th Gordon Highlanders ?

What was your Grandfather's name?

Mike

No - it's definately 55th Gordon Highlanders, Regiment no 6078 and Regiment no 202571. (According to the National Archives) My Grandad was Maxwell Hargreaves born in Leyland. He served fom 1914 - 1920. So Im guessing it was a West Lancashire regiment?? I believe there was a Regiment HQ in Liverpool. Hope this helps!

[truthergw]

Hi Charlotte. That is a misprint I'm afraid. The Gordon's were recruited in this area and were Aberdeen's home regiment. There is a regimental museum here and they have a website. They are always very helpful with queries.

[Charlotte R]

Hi Charlotte. That is a misprint I'm afraid. The Gordon's were recruited in this area and were Aberdeen's home regiment. There is a regimental museum here and they have a website. They are always very helpful with queries.

Thank you

[Chris_Baker]

Charlotte, Maxwell's second number was issued in early 1917 and confirms that he was serving with the 4th Battalion of the Gordon Highlanders. There is a detailed article here if you are interested: http://www.1914-1918.net/TF_renumbering_infantry.htm

He appears in two important documents that you need to look up to understand more about his service. They are

Roll of the British War and Victory Medal G/101B20, on page 2749, and

Roll of the Silver War Badge GA/1282.

Neither of these are online. They are held at the National Archives. The badge roll, in particular, will give his date of enlistment and of discharge, and the reason why he was discharged early.

By 1917 the 4th Battalion had been duplicated and the new numbers were issued to men in the 1/4th and 4th Reserve Battalions. Details at http://www.1914-1918.net/gordon.htm

Not sure where you got the 55th from. There is a pencil note at the top of his index card saying "75". This is a reference to the old pre-1881 name of the Gordons as the 75th Highlanders. Goodness knows why they were still referring to regiments this way, but old habits die hard.

[Charlotte R]

Fantastic! Thank you very much! It was family members who were adamant that he was in the 55th but there you go - obviously crossed wires somewhere along the way.

[Charlotte R]

Charlotte, Maxwell's second number was issued in early 1917 and confirms that he was serving with the 4th Battalion of the Gordon Highlanders. There is a detailed article here if you are interested: http://www.1914-1918.net/TF_renumbering_infantry.htm

He appears in two important documents that you need to look up to understand more about his service. They are

Roll of the British War and Victory Medal G/101B20, on page 2749, and

Roll of the Silver War Badge GA/1282.

Neither of these are online. They are held at the National Archives. The badge roll, in particular, will give his date of enlistment and of discharge, and the reason why he was discharged early.

By 1917 the 4th Battalion had been duplicated and the new numbers were issued to men in the 1/4th and 4th Reserve Battalions. Details at http://www.1914-1918.net/gordon.htm

Not sure where you got the 55th from. There is a pencil note at the top of his index card saying "75". This is a reference to the old pre-1881 name of the Gordons as the 75th Highlanders. Goodness knows why they were still referring to regiments this way, but old habits die hard.

Have just checked out the link - obviously nothing was done simply then! I know why he was medically discharged, he had his arm blown off at the shoulder by a shell on 11/11/18. They did manage to save his arm however and he then returned to England and went to a convalescence home in Somerset, which is where he met my Great Grandma who was working there as a nurse. Im going to try and get access to the documents you sugeested. Thanks again.

[Ian Riley]

There is a link between Lancashire and the 51st (Highland) Division.

The 55th (West Lancashire) Division, containing the Liverpool Scottish, was originally based in Liverpool and contained regiments that were based from Warrington up to Barrow (including Preston). Does this muddy the waters? It was not numbered as the 55th however until January 1916 when its battalions, which had been scattered across the BEF, came together. One brigade, the North Lancashire Brigade (I think), was actually detached complete and served with the 51st (Highland) Division from their time in Bedford and later in France and Flanders during 1915, rejoining the 55th in 1916. Perhaps he started with a territorial battalion of the West Lancashire Division and somehow transferred to a Territorial battalion of the Gordons.

Ian

[KevinBattle]

Could this be the clue to when he was transferred?

My Great Grandfather served with them in WW1. I know he was injured once and was then sent back.

Quite often, returning soldiers were sent where there was the most need.

Then he was wounded again on 11/11/18

[daggers]

Not relevant to Gordon Highlanders or strictly to 55th Division. but I overheard two ladies on a coach passing through Seaforth, north of Liverpool, one of whom declared that this was where the Seaforth Highlanders came from.

D

[truthergw]

After conscription, I expect some did.

[Charlotte R]

There is a link between Lancashire and the 51st (Highland) Division.

The 55th (West Lancashire) Division, containing the Liverpool Scottish, was originally based in Liverpool and contained regiments that were based from Warrington up to Barrow (including Preston). Does this muddy the waters? It was not numbered as the 55th however until January 1916 when its battalions, which had been scattered across the BEF, came together. One brigade, the North Lancashire Brigade (I think), was actually detached complete and served with the 51st (Highland) Division from their time in Bedford and later in France and Flanders during 1915, rejoining the 55th in 1916. Perhaps he started with a territorial battalion of the West Lancashire Division and somehow transferred to a Territorial battalion of the Gordons.

Ian

That sounds plausible. Definately worth looking into - thanks!

[Ian Riley]

There is a link between Lancashire and the 51st (Highland) Division.

The 55th (West Lancashire) Division, containing the Liverpool Scottish, was originally based in Liverpool and contained regiments that were based from Warrington up to Barrow (including Preston). Does this muddy the waters? It was not numbered as the 55th however until January 1916 when its battalions, which had been scattered across the BEF, came together. One brigade, the North Lancashire Brigade (I think), was actually detached complete and served with the 51st (Highland) Division from their time in Bedford and later in France and Flanders during 1915, rejoining the 55th in 1916. Perhaps he started with a territorial battalion of the West Lancashire Division and somehow transferred to a Territorial battalion of the Gordons.

Ian

Replying to my own post! I was clearly in too much of a rush this morning trying to sort out somebody's maths problems and failed to notice that Maxwell Hargreaves had not been awarded the 1914-1915 Star so he will (presumably) not have been with the original North Lancashire Brigade at Bedford with the 51st Division and clearly not with them in France and Flanders in 1915.

The only other connection with the number 55th that I can imagine, given that he came from near Preston is that he might have been a post war member oif the ex-service 55th Division Club that was (and still is) in Preston.

Ian

[4thGordons]

I will have a look at my stuff if he is 1/4th - you might find something HERE interesting.

I have also transcribed the full war diary (only 1915 is currently on the site) and could offer you sections if interested.

Chris

(just an oddity - something is nagging in my mind. I believe I have seen/hear reference to the 55th Gordon Highlanders somewhere - as a late war training unit designation who later went into the army of occupation in Germany. I hope I am not making this all up ! I am at work at the moment and will check when I get home)

EDIT EDIT

OK so I was making it all up - It was the 51st (Graduated) Battalion The Gordon Highlanders I was thinking about

[KevinBattle]

If similar Service Numbers will assist in piecing this together, there are these:-

001 CAMPBELL G 202534 B COY 4TH BN 25/03/1918 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

002 COOPER AI 202564 4TH BN 09/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

003 COWAN FF 202530 4TH BN 23/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

004 CRAWFORD A 202589 4TH BN 13/04/1918 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

005 DEY A 202591 4TH BN 23/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

006 EDWARDS FR 202509 1ST/4TH BN 15/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

007 GATT A 202557 4TH BN 20/09/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

008 GOODALL G 202501 1ST/4TH BN 06/08/1918 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

009 GRAHAM R 202579 4TH BN 09/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

010 GRAHAM J 202560 5TH BN 05/12/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

011 GRANT J S/202527 8TH/10TH BN 01/04/1918 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

012 GRIMES J 202523 1ST/4TH BN 23/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

013 JAMIESON W 202573 1ST/4TH BN 23/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

014 JARDINE DJ 202025 1ST BN 04/05/1918 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

015 MCKAY D 202514 1ST/4TH BN 23/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

016 MITCHELL G 202596 4TH BN 02/12/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

017 MUIR R 202556 1ST/4TH BN 23/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

018 PATERSON WC 202541 1ST/4TH BN 23/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

019 ROGER J 202597 1ST/4TH BN 23/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

020 SCULLION W 202538 1ST/4TH BN 23/04/1917 GORDON HIGHLANDERS

which looks to give a "hint" of his unit, I think!!

[4thGordons]

Charlotte,

There may be an additional element in the story that might be investigated as possible "family lore"

on 11/11/1918 the 4th Battalion were in Billets in Cambrai and had been there since 1/11. Although the Battalion diary is rather thin on details of O/R (other ranks) casualties - in rest periods it does record number sick, wounded/injured etc and none are reported on 11/11.

The battalion was last in action at the end of October at FAMARS/MAING

After participating in the capture of FAMARS, by the 28th the battalion were in the reserve line at MAING-DOUCHY - here they suffered 19 O/Rs casualties - it appears from shelling.

The next day the diary reads:

MAING DOUCHY 29/10/1918 Weather sunny and fresh. Heavy hostile shelling of MAING. At 10:00 Battn. left village and proceeded to Rest Billets at DOUCHY. Hot meals on arrival and Baths during the afternoon. Casualties Killed NIL wounded 2/Lt JOSHY and 2 ORs NIL Sick to Hospital 12 ORs (NYD Gas)

The wounding of 2/Lt Joshy and the wounding of 2 unnamed O/Rs are the last casualties from enemy action recorded in the diary. It seems more likely to me that if your great grandad was indeed wounded at the very end of the war then it was on these two days rather than later. If on the 29th he would have been one of the last casualties the battalion suffered! (perhaps he reached the UK and hospital on 11/11? that timeframe would not be impossible - a couple of days immediate treatment and stabilization and then evacuation back to the UK over a week would be about correct for putting him back in hospital then)

I do have the action reports for this period also.

I would be very interested in hearing/seeing what you have as I have been researching the Battalion for some time. I have accumulated a fairly broad assortment of information/documents and accounts so if anything I have is of interest let me know.

Chris

[Charlotte R]

Charlotte,

There may be an additional element in the story that might be investigated as possible "family lore"

on 11/11/1918 the 4th Battalion were in Billets in Cambrai and had been there since 1/11. Although the Battalion diary is rather thin on details of O/R (other ranks) casualties - in rest periods it does record number sick, wounded/injured etc and none are reported on 11/11.

The battalion was last in action at the end of October at FAMARS/MAING

After participating in the capture of FAMARS, by the 28th the battalion were in the reserve line at MAING-DOUCHY - here they suffered 19 O/Rs casualties - it appears from shelling.

The next day the diary reads:

MAING DOUCHY 29/10/1918 Weather sunny and fresh. Heavy hostile shelling of MAING. At 10:00 Battn. left village and proceeded to Rest Billets at DOUCHY. Hot meals on arrival and Baths during the afternoon. Casualties Killed NIL wounded 2/Lt JOSHY and 2 ORs NIL Sick to Hospital 12 ORs (NYD Gas)

The wounding of 2/Lt Joshy and the wounding of 2 unnamed O/Rs are the last casualties from enemy action recorded in the diary. It seems more likely to me that if your great grandad was indeed wounded at the very end of the war then it was on these two days rather than later. If on the 29th he would have been one of the last casualties the battalion suffered! (perhaps he reached the UK and hospital on 11/11? that timeframe would not be impossible - a couple of days immediate treatment and stabilization and then evacuation back to the UK over a week would be about correct for putting him back in hospital then)

I do have the action reports for this period also.

I would be very interested in hearing/seeing what you have as I have been researching the Battalion for some time. I have accumulated a fairly broad assortment of information/documents and accounts so if anything I have is of interest let me know.

Chris

The story goes that he was doing the "rum running" from one trench to another. As it was early hours of Armistace day he was a bit worse for wear by the end it! Obviously having a "tot" with various people. He somehow ended up having his arm blown off at the shoulder, whether this was a shell or a mine maybe?? I dont know. He was lying there for some time before he was found as he always used to say it was the fact he'd had so much alcohol that had saved him! I seem to remember hearing something about a railway line along the way? Dont know if this makes any sense??

I will have a look at my stuff if he is 1/4th - you might find something HERE interesting.

I have also transcribed the full war diary (only 1915 is currently on the site) and could offer you sections if interested.

Chris

(just an oddity - something is nagging in my mind. I believe I have seen/hear reference to the 55th Gordon Highlanders somewhere - as a late war training unit designation who later went into the army of occupation in Germany. I hope I am not making this all up ! I am at work at the moment and will check when I get home)

EDIT EDIT

OK so I was making it all up - It was the 51st (Graduated) Battalion The Gordon Highlanders I was thinking about

Already checked the site out - very informative!