William Paull of 1st Battalion Northampton Regiment

[kcpaull]

We are looking for information about a career soldier by the name of William Oliver Paull who entered 1st Battalion Northampton Regiment on 6 September 1901. He sometimes used the middle name of James instead of Oliver and was known to have been stationed in India at one point. Any information about what he might have done while in the army would be appreciated. After the army we know he was a musician sometimes and a male nurse at other times.

[Stebie9173]

He would possibly have been Private 5648 William Paul (one "l" per medal card). The 5648 number is consistent with an enlistment around 1900. The 1st Battalion of the Northamptonshire Regiment had been out in India since 1892 and stayed there until February 1911, when they swapped Imperial garrison duty with the 2nd Battalion, so service in India is an almost certainty.

I would have expected him to have served overseas from either the trooping season (Sep-Mar) of 1902/03 or perhaps more likely 1903/04*. The 1st Battalion were based in Jullunder (northern India) until 1908 and were then at Poona (southwest India, near Bombay), though there were detachments to various smaller garrisons in nearby towns and hill-forts. The battalion also spent a short while at Aden (Yemen) in 1910/11 on the way back to England.

* If he joined as a boy soldier then this may have been later. What year was he born?

5648 William Paul was one of the 2nd batch of reinforcements for the 1st battalion arriving in France on 12 September 1914 - this draft of reinforcements having a more mature age-range (the army had sent the younger men across to France first, as was logical) The 1st battalion had been part of the original British Expeditionary Force going to France on 13 August 1914. The battalion had only a small role in the battle of Mons (23 August 1914) and then joined the retreat from Mons where the had a few small encounters with the Germans, before the retreat was halted and the battalion was called into action for the battle of the Aisne in early September 1914. Between then and the end of the 1st Battle of Ypres on 22 November 1914 the battalion took very heavy casualties, and took other considerable casualties in 1915 at the battle of Aubers Ridge on 9 May 1915 and later at Loos on 25 September 1915.

I can check to see if and when he was wounded when I get back to my records tonight, and should be able to tell you when he was discharged (his medal card gives no clue as to whether this was 1914 or 1919 !)

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

I've found the records of 5648 William Paul and he was born at Paddington in aprox. 1879 joining the Northamptonshire Regiment on 17 October 1898. He served with the 2nd Battalion in South Africa and the UK before the war and then with 1st Battalion in 1914 being wounded in November 1914 and then discharged from the Army having served out his term of enlistment in October 1915. Next of kin is given as father, Thomas Paul, Cookham Dean, Berkshire, and later his wife Bertha Brooks (married 8.6.1908). They had two girls, Violet Joy May and Bertha Dorothy.

Bearing in mind that this man had no service in India, I suspect I'm barking up the wrong tree!

Can you confirm that this is the wrong (or right!) man, and if it isn't the right man, can you let us know when and where he was born, and where he might have lived during the war? Have you traced him on the 1911 Census?

Steve.

EDIT: Having located the Oliver-Paull family tree site, this is almost definitely the wrong man. I've had a few more thoughts about William Oliver Paull's possible army career, and I'll try and post something later. May I ask where the enlistment date is derived from?

[Stebie9173]

After one false start, I'll start again....

I'm assuming that William Oliver Paull is the same one as referenced on the link below, i.e. born on 19 July 1886.

http://oliver-paull.org/getperson.php?pers...4&tree=apop

The enlistment date of 6 September 1901 would make William Oliver Paull just over fifteen years old when he enlisted, so he presumably enlisted as a boy soldier, possibly as a Bugler or Drummer.

He would have signed up for 12 years service, split between a period of full time active service "with the Colours" - i.e. serving with the regiment - and the balance on Reserve, at home in civilian occupation with an obligation for recall. This was usually for 7 years on active service, and 5 years of Reserve.

William would have been issued a reigimental number at the time of his enlistment. Based on the dates of enlistment that number would be between 6428 and 6453, possibly in the smaller range between 6430 and 6440.

Whilst it is possible that he could have been posted to the 2nd Battalion to go to South Africa, I can't see his name on the Queen's South Africa Medal medal rolls, so I can only assume that he went straight to India to join 1st battalion once he had received whatever training was necessary for a boys soldier, which I suspect was not a great deal.

As I mentioned above the "trooping season" taking men back and forward between the garrisons of the Empire took place over the winter between September and March each year. I would imagine he would not have gone directly to the 1st battalion in the 1901/02 season, more likely during the 1902/03 season. It is also possible that he stayed at the Depot for several years - the Depot and the two Regular battalions would have had a set establsihment of boy soldiers - it was about 15 in the main battalions, but I don't know about the Depot.

He would have become a fully-fledged soldier on his 17th Birthday on 19 July 1903. What training he hadn't received as a boy, he would now have received. Also, if he wasn't already in India, he would be likely to soon depart for India. He would likely have joined the 1st Battalion while they were at Jullundur where they had been since November 1903.

After moving from Jullundur to Poona in 1908, the 1st Battalion moved on to Aden in 1910. During their time in India in the early 1900s the battalion had not been involved in any active campaigning, rather being involved in the day-to-day garrison duty of defending the Empire.

The battalion was only in Aden for a few months before moving on back to England aboard Hired Transport Dongola which had just dropped the 2nd Battalion off at Malta. On the way back it dropped off some of the men from 1st battalion who still had overseas time to serve. This does not appear to have included William Paull.

William Paull shows up as a soldier on the 1911 Census, apparently at his brother Henry's house in Fulham. The 1st Battalion had only arrived back in the UK on 15 March 1911, only a couple of weeks before the 1911 Census. Most of the 1st battalion were granted several weeks leave upon arrival back in the UK, and thus show up as Soldiers at home, rather than in barracks where they would normally be found.

I'm not all that familiar with the active service period of boy soldiers i.e. whether it commenced on the date of enlistment or upon attaining 17 years of age. If it was on his enlistment then his active service period of seven years would have expired on 6 September 1908 (well before he evidently returned home) and if from his 17th Birthday then it would expire on 19 July 1910. If the latter was the case then overseas service could extend the active service period to eight years taking the date of his transfer to Reserve to 19 July 1911.

Regardless of his date of transfer to Reserve, his date of full discharge from the army would have been 12 years from his date of enlistment, i.e. 6 September 1913. At that point his number would have been "retired", hence he may not have re-used that number during the First World War. He could though have, with permission, extended his period of service to 21 years.

Having eliminated the "obvious" man (i.e. 5648) I am at a loss to locate William Paull in the Northamptonshire Regiment during the 1914 - 1919, period so it may be that he actually re-enlisted into another regiment for service in the war. Since he was only 27 at the outbreak of war, it is likely that he did serve in some capacity, presuming that his health was sufficient.

I hope this makes a start.

Steve.

[IPT]

If he had switched to the "James" option, is this man a candidate (I haven't got Ancestry)?

Description Medal card of Paull, William J

Corps Regiment No Rank

Army Ordnance Corps 04241 Private

Date 1914-1920

Catalogue reference WO 372/15

[Stebie9173]

I had my beady eye on that one myself, but I already jumped to one conclusion today!

He is certainly not the other William J Paull on the medal cards (who is a William James Paull, but in the Dorsetshire Regiment from 1899 to 1911, and then rejoined)

The Army Ordnance Corps man went overseas on 16-4-1915, survived the war and was transferred to Class Z Reserve on 23-7-1919. There is no address on the card. (Possibly enlisted in January 1915).

Steve.

EDIT:

Incidentally, jumping to another conclusion - was his brother Leonard in the Northamptonshire Regiment as well?

[kcpaull]

After one false start, I'll start again....

I'm assuming that William Oliver Paull is the same one as referenced on the link below, i.e. born on 19 July 1886.

http://oliver-paull.org/getperson.php?pers...4&tree=apop

The enlistment date of 6 September 1901 would make William Oliver Paull just over fifteen years old when he enlisted, so he presumably enlisted as a boy soldier, possibly as a Bugler or Drummer.

He would have signed up for 12 years service, split between a period of full time active service "with the Colours" - i.e. serving with the regiment - and the balance on Reserve, at home in civilian occupation with an obligation for recall. This was usually for 7 years on active service, and 5 years of Reserve.

William would have been issued a reigimental number at the time of his enlistment. Based on the dates of enlistment that number would be between 6428 and 6453, possibly in the smaller range between 6430 and 6440.

Whilst it is possible that he could have been posted to the 2nd Battalion to go to South Africa, I can't see his name on the Queen's South Africa Medal medal rolls, so I can only assume that he went straight to India to join 1st battalion once he had received whatever training was necessary for a boys soldier, which I suspect was not a great deal.

As I mentioned above the "trooping season" taking men back and forward between the garrisons of the Empire took place over the winter between September and March each year. I would imagine he would not have gone directly to the 1st battalion in the 1901/02 season, more likely during the 1902/03 season. It is also possible that he stayed at the Depot for several years - the Depot and the two Regular battalions would have had a set establsihment of boy soldiers - it was about 15 in the main battalions, but I don't know about the Depot.

He would have become a fully-fledged soldier on his 17th Birthday on 19 July 1903. What training he hadn't received as a boy, he would now have received. Also, if he wasn't already in India, he would be likely to soon depart for India. He would likely have joined the 1st Battalion while they were at Jullundur where they had been since November 1903.

After moving from Jullundur to Poona in 1908, the 1st Battalion moved on to Aden in 1910. During their time in India in the early 1900s the battalion had not been involved in any active campaigning, rather being involved in the day-to-day garrison duty of defending the Empire.

The battalion was only in Aden for a few months before moving on back to England aboard Hired Transport Dongola which had just dropped the 2nd Battalion off at Malta. On the way back it dropped off some of the men from 1st battalion who still had overseas time to serve. This does not appear to have included William Paull.

William Paull shows up as a soldier on the 1911 Census, apparently at his brother Henry's house in Fulham. The 1st Battalion had only arrived back in the UK on 15 March 1911, only a couple of weeks before the 1911 Census. Most of the 1st battalion were granted several weeks leave upon arrival back in the UK, and thus show up as Soldiers at home, rather than in barracks where they would normally be found.

I'm not all that familiar with the active service period of boy soldiers i.e. whether it commenced on the date of enlistment or upon attaining 17 years of age. If it was on his enlistment then his active service period of seven years would have expired on 6 September 1908 (well before he evidently returned home) and if from his 17th Birthday then it would expire on 19 July 1910. If the latter was the case then overseas service could extend the active service period to eight years taking the date of his transfer to Reserve to 19 July 1911.

Regardless of his date of transfer to Reserve, his date of full discharge from the army would have been 12 years from his date of enlistment, i.e. 6 September 1913. At that point his number would have been "retired", hence he may not have re-used that number during the First World War. He could though have, with permission, extended his period of service to 21 years.

Having eliminated the "obvious" man (i.e. 5648) I am at a loss to locate William Paull in the Northamptonshire Regiment during the 1914 - 1919, period so it may be that he actually re-enlisted into another regiment for service in the war. Since he was only 27 at the outbreak of war, it is likely that he did serve in some capacity, presuming that his health was sufficient.

I hope this makes a start.

Steve.

Wow! That's a lot of information. This does sound like him as he had a brother named Henry who was two years older. I don't have access to the 1911 census yet but we've gotten in contact with his descendants in Australia and they passed on info that he moved there in 1913 then went back and joined the 10th Batt. Royal Fusiliers. They sent us a photo of the 10th Fusiliers Band with him in it. This info was also sent to us but I'm not sure what it means: Reference - A.S.C Records Woolwish Dockyard - S/443059, Rank - C.Q.M.S

All of his four brothers served in WWI with Henry, William, Edward, & Leonard in the British Army and David in the Royal Navy. William's family only just found out that all five brothers survived WWI so it's a rather joyous occassion for all. Thank you all so much for helping us out. I'm sure his family down under will love having some of the blanks filled in.

[Stebie9173]

There is a William Paull on the Medal Index cards with both "requirements"

He has Royal Fusiliers number 1216 and Army Service Corps number S/443059.

He embarked to France on the 30th July 1915 which ties in exactly with the date of going to France of the 10th (Service) Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers - he went to France as a Lance-Corporal and held the permenant rank of Private at the end of the war, though it is likely that he held the appointment of Lance-Corporal at that time too.

From the Long, Long Trail:

http://www.1914-1918.net/royalfus.htm

THE ROYAL FUSILIERS

10th (Service) Battalion

Formed in City of London in August 1914 as part of K2, although it was a locally raised Battalion, not under the control of the War Office - and had the unofficial title of the Stockbrokers.

September 1914 : attached to 54th Brigade, 18th (Eastern) Division.

October 1914 : left Brigade and became Army Troops in same Division.

March 1915 : transferred to 111th Brigade, 37th Division.

Landed at Boulogne 30 July 1915.

http://www.1914-1918.net/37div.htm

Steve.

[kcpaull]

There is a William Paull on the Medal Index cards with both "requirements"

He has Royal Fusiliers number 1216 and Army Service Corps number S/443059.

He embarked to France on the 30th July 1915 which ties in exactly with the date of going to France of the 10th (Service) Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers - he went to France as a Lance-Corporal and held the permenant rank of Private at the end of the war, though it is likely that he held the appointment of Lance-Corporal at that time too.

From the Long, Long Trail:

http://www.1914-1918.net/royalfus.htm

THE ROYAL FUSILIERS

10th (Service) Battalion

Formed in City of London in August 1914 as part of K2, although it was a locally raised Battalion, not under the control of the War Office - and had the unofficial title of the Stockbrokers.

September 1914 : attached to 54th Brigade, 18th (Eastern) Division.

October 1914 : left Brigade and became Army Troops in same Division.

March 1915 : transferred to 111th Brigade, 37th Division.

Landed at Boulogne 30 July 1915.

http://www.1914-1918.net/37div.htm

Steve.

Thank you again for all your help and information. I've forwarded the info to his family in Australia. I'm sure they will be delighted to hear all of this.

[Stebie9173]

Assuming that the Leonard Paull in the Northamptonshire Regiment was "Your" Leonard Paull, I have the following details on his time in the Regiment.

- Enlisted on 1 September 1908.

- He doesn't appear on the 1911 Census with the 2nd Battalion at Malta, so he is likely to have been serving with 1st Battalion at that time (again, he is shown as a Soldier in a civilian household, so presumably he was also one leave from 1st battalion following their arrival back in England from India/Aden.)

- To France with the main contingent of 1st Battalion on 13 August 1914.

- Awarded the 1914 Star with Clasp & Roses/British War Medal/Victory Medal.

- Reported as Wounded as a Private per the Times of 15-12-1914 - consistent with being wounded at Bodmin Copse near Ypres circa 1st/2nd November 1914.

- Discharged under King's Regulation 392 xvi (No longer physically fit for duty due to wounds), 27-8-1915.

- Silver War Badge issued from Silver War Badge Roll "SWB List K/175".

EDIT:

The site I referenced to above seems to confirm that Leonard was on leave at the time of the 1911 Census.

http://oliver-paull.org/showsource.php?sou...3&tree=apop

Title 1911 Census of Kingson & East Southsea, Portsmouth, Hampshire

Short Title I15 Eng. Cen. 1911

Author Hampshire, Portsmouth, Kingston & Southsea

Publisher England 1911

Call Number RG14PN5547

Source ID S253

Text 153 Methuen Road, Eastney, Portsmouth, Hampshire.

William Cooke, Head, Married, Age 36, Waiter, born in Freshwater Isle of Wight Hampshire.

Ada Cooke, Wife, Married 6 years, Age 43, Laundress, born in Leicester.

William T A Harrison, Stepson, Single, Age 17, Musician Soldier Northampton Regiment, born in S. Farnboro Hampshire.

Leonard Paull, Boarder, Single, Age 17, Musician Soldier Northampton Regiment, born in Kensington Middlesex.

The date of his discharge from the oprhanage ( http://oliver-paull.org/showsource.php?sou...7&tree=apop ) of 31-8-1908 ties in precisely with his enlistment date as shown on his silver war badge records. So, I would say that this is the right Leonard Paull.

Bearing in mind his army trade as a Musician and that he had probably served overseas before reaching 19, he had probably served as a boy soldier.

His pal on the 1911 Census would have been 8593 William Thomas Augustus Harrison, resident at Faversham in Kent per the Official Casualty Lists, who embarked to France on 13 August 1914 and was taken POW with 1st Battalion at the Battle of the Dunes on 10 July 1917. Following his release from Germany he was discharged via Class Z Reserve on 6 November 1919.

Although I hadn't noticed it before, the above site for William Paull confirms my theory that William was on furlough/leave at the time of the 1911 Census.

http://oliver-paull.org/showsource.php?sou...8&tree=apop

Steve.

[kcpaull]

Assuming that the Leonard Paull in the Northamptonshire Regiment was "Your" Leonard Paull, I have the following details on his time in the Regiment.

- Enlisted on 1 September 1908.

- He doesn't appear on the 1911 Census with the 2nd Battalion at Malta, so he is likely to have been serving with 1st Battalion at that time (again, he is shown as a Soldier in a civilian household, so presumably he was also one leave from 1st battalion following their arrival back in England from India/Aden.)

- To France with the main contingent of 1st Battalion on 13 August 1914.

- Awarded the 1914 Star with Clasp & Roses/British War Medal/Victory Medal.

- Reported as Wounded as a Private per the Times of 15-12-1914 - consistent with being wounded at Bodmin Copse near Ypres circa 1st/2nd November 1914.

- Discharged under King's Regulation 392 xvi (No longer physically fit for duty due to wounds), 27-8-1915.

- Silver War Badge issued from Silver War Badge Roll "SWB List K/175".

EDIT:

The site I referenced to above seems to confirm that Leonard was on leave at the time of the 1911 Census.

http://oliver-paull.org/showsource.php?sou...3&tree=apop

Title 1911 Census of Kingson & East Southsea, Portsmouth, Hampshire

Short Title I15 Eng. Cen. 1911

Author Hampshire, Portsmouth, Kingston & Southsea

Publisher England 1911

Call Number RG14PN5547

Source ID S253

Text 153 Methuen Road, Eastney, Portsmouth, Hampshire.

William Cooke, Head, Married, Age 36, Waiter, born in Freshwater Isle of Wight Hampshire.

Ada Cooke, Wife, Married 6 years, Age 43, Laundress, born in Leicester.

William T A Harrison, Stepson, Single, Age 17, Musician Soldier Northampton Regiment, born in S. Farnboro Hampshire.

Leonard Paull, Boarder, Single, Age 17, Musician Soldier Northampton Regiment, born in Kensington Middlesex.

The date of his discharge from the oprhanage ( http://oliver-paull.org/showsource.php?sou...7&tree=apop ) of 31-8-1908 ties in precisely with his enlistment date as shown on his silver war badge records. So, I would say that this is the right Leonard Paull.

Bearing in mind his army trade as a Musician and that he had probably served overseas before reaching 19, he had probably served as a boy soldier.

His pal on the 1911 Census would have been 8593 William Thomas Augustus Harrison, resident at Faversham in Kent per the Official Casualty Lists, who embarked to France on 13 August 1914 and was taken POW with 1st Battalion at the Battle of the Dunes on 10 July 1917. Following his release from Germany he was discharged via Class Z Reserve on 6 November 1919.

Although I hadn't noticed it before, the above site for William Paull confirms my theory that William was on furlough/leave at the time of the 1911 Census.

http://oliver-paull.org/showsource.php?sou...8&tree=apop

Steve.

Thanks again so very much. Poor Leonard died when he was 40 in Clerks Croft. This is all very educational as the family split up and the war was not discussed much.