William Edwards - Northumberland Fusiliers 1911 (874)

[gbt100]

Hi,

I would be grateful if anybody could help me with finding out more information about my great grandfather William Edwards.

From the information I have, I know that he was Lance Corporal 874 'in E' Company of 1st Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers. We know he was in India during 1906-07 and he was still in the army in 1912.

From his marriage certificate in 1913, his age was 29, giving a date of birth of 1884 +/- 1 year, providing he put his age down correctly. I have no idea of where he was born, but presumably it was in Durham or Newcastle, hence the Northumberland Fusiliers connection. His marriage was in Norfolk, and not long after we know the family moved back up to the north east.

From the 1911 census, I found an overseas military record that tied in with his presumed age however, it wasn’t for the Northumberland Fusiliers and it also wasn’t in India.

There is a WW1 medal record for him - I'm assuming that he left the army but was then recalled. It appears that he ended up in the labour corps (as a result of an injury possibly?) with the number 453726. He survived the war and remarried.

Its very frustrating not being able to find out any more - I have only managed to get back 100 years and 3 generations on that side of my tree.

Has anyone got any information regarding the Northumberland Fusilliers in india and WW1 or the Labour Coprs?

Any advice as to what to do next?

Any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

[Graham Stewart]

Not an awful lot to go on, but his number(874) indicates he enlisted mid to late 1904, possibly in the September. He was certainly still serving with the 1st Bn, NF when recorded as being wounded in January 1915. After recuperation he is transferred to the Labour Corps, but strangely the MIC's can't make up their mind as to what his number actually was, as they give two = 453721 & 453726.

Assuming he enlisted under the general terms of the time of 7years with the Colours and 5 with the Reserve, then he would have been Discharged in 1911 only to be called back as a Reservist, but still retaining his old number 874.

[sotonmate]

gbt100

I should welcome you to the Forum !

No service record responded to my request,so it might be that it was destroyed along with over 70% of others from that time.

You can get some idea of the actions of 1 NF,who were part of 9 Brigade of 3 Division,from it's War Diary which is at Kew under WO95/1430. It is in digital format and you could request a download for the sum of 3.50 from the National Archives Catalogue. Alternatively someone here might be willing to let you have the relevant piece of theirs.

Most of the actions seem to have quietened down for the inclement winter months,so your man was probably quite static,seemingly around the area of Bethune/Givenchy/ La Bassee,but the Diary will put you right. His wounds seem to have taken him away from the Front and on return to fitness,probably not A1,posted to the Labour Corps. There are people here who can tell you a bit of his Labour Corps posting from the number allocated to your subject.

Sotonmate

[punjab612]

gbt100

Welcome to the forum

It looks probable that he served with my Grandfather who enlisted in 1903. He saw service with the 1st NF in Mauritiius from 1904 to 1906 before moving, with the battalion to India until they returned from foreign service in 1913. I will have a look through the regimental journal (St Georges Gazette) for any mentions of him, in educational achievement, good conduct badges, concert parties sporting events etc. I will also let you have a brief overview of the stations where the 1st were based in India. It will take me a while though as I am away for a few days so it will probably during over Easster before I can do it.

The NF recruited in areas other than the North east my gradfather attested in Northampton. My Gt Grandfather on the other side of my family aslo a 1st NF man attested in Norwich

Peter

[gbt100]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

I had no idea until recently that he actually served in WW1, all we knew was his service in India and the beginning of the decade.

I have had great diffuclty trying to find him on the census as I do not know where he was born. The only place I can tie him down to is Thetford for his first marraige in 1913, moving to Newcastle a bit later on. I have always assumed that he was from Newcastle originally since he ended up in the Northumberland Fusilliers but now I'm thinking maybe not.

I did do a search on the 1911 census for overseas military but there was no match for him. However, if he might have already left and gone into the reserve by 1911. It still doesnt really explain why he was in Norfolk classed as an agricultural labourer!

I am really fascinated by his army history - I hope I can find out some more about the action he was involved in.

Thanks again eveybody

Gareth.

[punjab612]

Gareth

Have just looked at his medal index card and strangely there is no date of entry into theatre of war. This normally indicates that he did not go overseas until after the end of 1915. It may be that when he was recalled from the reserve he was transfered to the Labour Corps and didn't go overseas with the 1st NF in August 1914.

This does however conflict with Graham's evidence of his wounding in January 1915. I have looked in the casualty lists in the 1st NF war diary for Dec 14 to January 15 and cannot find an entry, but the lists may not be complete.

Peter

[Graham Stewart]

His wounding for January 1915 can be found in that months edition of St.Georges Gazette(the Regimental Journal), which for 1914,1915 & 1916 are pretty accurate, as they are also taken from the same casualty lists as found in the London Gazette.

The general path of a Reservist on recall in August 1914, was firstly to the Depot for kitting out and documentation, then onto the 3rd(Reserve)Battalion for musketry, drill and P.T. to bring them up to fitness then drafted as a reinforcement.

The Labour Corps wasn't created until 1917, so we can only assume that his wounds were serious enough to keep him in the UK until transferred to them as there is no further mention of him after his wounding.

[gbt100]

The plot thickens then - its turning into quite a mystery for me!

Thanks for your research, it really is appreciated.

I have a copy of the medal index card but I found it a little diffcult to understand. Since I han't seen one before for someone else, I didn't know if it was different in any way to what it shgould be.

Just out of interest - where would you have to sign up to join the Northumberland Fusilliers. Presumably it would be in Newcastle of maybe Alnwick? If he signed up early in the 20th century then I may have a hope of trying to find him in the census data.

Thanks,

Gareth.

[Ivor Lee]

Gareth

His Labour Corps number indicates that, initiually at least, he was in a UK based company.

From the number I think it was probably 477 Company which had its HQ at Lincoln.

477 was an Agricultural Company - most of the men were among the lowest medical category and often, but not always, men were in Companies located close to their home. I say not always as I have, for example, come across a man who was in an Agricultural Company with its HQ in Kent but who worked on a farm close to his home in Norfolk.

Of course he could have been transferred to a different Labour Corps company. This was quite common but this can only be ascertained from his service record.

Ivor

[gbt100]

I have also looked through the war diaries in WO95/1430 for January 1915 and I can't see him listed as wounded. I gues sthat they could be innacurate.

I think my best bet now is to request his ervice history - hopefully it hasn't been destroyed.

Hareth

[punjab612]

Gareth,

As promised I have ploughed through the St George's Gazette from 1903 to 1914 and found the following references to your great grandfather:-

1. Good Conduct Badge awarded 874 Private W Edwards from 15/2/07. Based at Fort William, Calcutta (SGG April 07).

This would be awarded for 2 years good conduct so his latest date of enlistment would be February 1905, probably slightly earlier as I am not certain whether the period of basic training counts towards the 2 year period.

2. Certificate of Education awarded dated Gharial, 22/7/10. 3^rd Class No. 874 W Edwards (SGG Aug 10)

3. The under mentioned men have been awarded the Indian Durbar Coronation Medal, 1911:- No 974 Pte Edwards. (SGG May 1912) By May they had moved from Delhi to Mhow.

This is confirmed in the Medal Roll for the Delhi Durbar Medal book. Out of the 26,000 Durbar medals issued 107 went to other ranks of the 1^st NF Fusiliers attending this Coronation celebration in Delhi between 7^th & 16^th December 1911.

This establishes as being in the 1^st Bn from about 1905 until 1912. My guess is that he left after his initial 7 term with the Colours in early 1912, this ties in with Graham's estimate of his enlistment date of mid-late 1904. I think he may have served with the 4^th Bn in Limerick after enlistment based on service numbers very close to his, and been later transferred to the 1^st, possibly in 1906 when they moved from Mauritius to India. I cannot prove this though.

I have also found him in the 1911 Census in West Ridge, Rawalpindi with 1^st NF. His place of birth is Brandon, Suffolk. From this I have traced him in the 1901 & 1891 census, still living in Brandon. There may be a glitch in the search in 1901 as it failed to find him but a found it through Rosina Edwards,(b,1890) his youngest sister.

Hope this helps in your research. PM me with your e-mail if you want copies of the census details.

Peter

[gbt100]

Thanks you so much for that information - it has filled a massive gap in my family history!

PM sent.

[Myrtle]

You will find Charles Robert Edward's papers on Ancestry. He was William's younger brother who was also with the Northumberland Fusiliers. (1643)