Woody Posted 24 March , 2010 Share Posted 24 March , 2010 A friend has asked if I can try to find out where his father was injured and who else might have been killed. The story goes that his dad was with a party of 8 royal engineers men (including an officer) digging an observation trench out into no man's land from the front line. During the work they were attacked and Noel Longland was wounded in the mouth. His son still has the piece of shrapnel that was removed from his jaw.... His son is trying to get an idea where it might have happened - he knows that others in the party were killed including he thinks the officer. Below is the info he provided. Here are the details I have found regarding my Dads Army career :- Noel.Thomas.Longland.Sapper No153847.5th or 10th Battalion Royal Engineers.(most likely 5th Battalion). Enlisted 24thAug1915. Volunteer. Discharged August 8th 1916. Wounded. Cause of discharge :Pana392 XVIKR. Action taken List.Th 246 Mouth Wound. Wounded on October 7th 1915 Night or early morning. I hope the above will give enough information to find out the location where he was wounded as that is the missing part. Again any help greatly appreciated. Thanks Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 24 March , 2010 Share Posted 24 March , 2010 Woody, Have a play with Geoff's search engine - http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/search14-21.php - It's a fantastic way to locate a death on a certain day. Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 24 March , 2010 Share Posted 24 March , 2010 Woody SDGW has a few but nothing consistent with a unit. 7 Oct shows three RE casualties (no Officer)one each from these units: 72 Field Company/69 Field Company and El Div Tel Coy RE. 8 October shows eleven RE casualties,two from 174 Tunnelling Coy,two from 76 Field Coy,one each from 86 Field Coy (Officer DOW on that day so could have been injured on 7th),87 FCoy,95 F Coy,96 F Coy,189 Coy Special Brigade,2 Lowland F Coy,and 37 AT Coy RE,and one unit unshown. Not what you want to see but it is placed before you. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 24 March , 2010 Share Posted 24 March , 2010 Don't know if the SWB reference will help - RE/453A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted 25 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2010 Thanks to everyone who has responded. I have a bit more info (but not sure it will help too much) here it is: I have a name for another soldier wounded in the incident. sapper B.Langrige was in the same work party Possible from the 10th Company Royal engineers. Will this help solve the problem? Cheers Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 March , 2010 Share Posted 25 March , 2010 You may need to verify your dates. Longland and Langridge (with a "d") appear in a Casualty list of 10-11-1916 (consistent with an October 1916 wounding. I would also associate 153847 as a 1916 enlistment rather than a 1915 one. 145589 Richard Langridge's service record survives. Looking for dates and unit details now... Steve. EDIT: Oh drat - his records don't give his unit at the time! They state wounded in the ankle and show a date of 10-10-1916 - though this is in a section that often shows the date when the man reached hospital at the coast, so the 7-10-1916 is certainly still an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 March , 2010 Share Posted 25 March , 2010 Are these possible? Name: SHERIFF, WILLIAM Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 83rd Field Coy. Age: 30 Date of Death: 07/10/1916 Service No: 145715 Additional information: Son of Thomas and Sarah Ann Sheriff, of Back of 24, Couper St., Old Goole, Yorks. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: III. M. 1. Cemetery: BANCOURT BRITISH CEMETERY Name: YUILLE Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Serjeant Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 83rd Field Coy. Age: 23 Date of Death: 07/10/1916 Service No: 43314 Additional information: Son of John and Catherine Yuille, of 1, Beechwood Terrace, Dumbarton. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. M. 10. Cemetery: BANCOURT BRITISH CEMETERY Name: MUCKLESTON, HAROLD SEABERT Initials: H S Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 83rd Field Coy. Age: 34 Date of Death: 07/10/1916 Service No: 59332 Additional information: Son of Thomas and Frances Muckleston; husband of Elizabeth Muckleston, of High St., Toddington, Beds. Native of Toddington. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. K. 6. Cemetery: BANCOURT BRITISH CEMETERY Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 March , 2010 Share Posted 25 March , 2010 There was also a group from 237th Field Company: Name: DEWE Initials: C F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Pioneer Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 237th Field Coy. Date of Death: 07/10/1916 Service No: 137721 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: IX. B. 2. Cemetery: A.I.F. BURIAL GROUND, FLERS Name: DAVIS Initials: G W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Corporal Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 237th Field Coy. Age: 26 Date of Death: 07/10/1916 Service No: 137811 Additional information: Son of G. W. and E. Davis, of Reading; husband of D. L. Mealings (formerly Davis), of Station House, Burghdere, near Newbury. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. A. 25. Cemetery: A.I.F. BURIAL GROUND, FLERS Name: SABLE, ERNEST Initials: E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 237th Field Coy. Date of Death: 07/10/1916 Service No: 137971 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 8 A and 8 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL Name: TRUELOCK, ALFRED Initials: A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 237th Field Coy. Date of Death: 07/10/1916 Service No: 137930 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 8 A and 8 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted 25 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2010 Steve Very grateful for this - it all seems to make sense. There is a letter on Langridge service file re being injured by GSW in october 1916. I'll check back with my friend re dates. Looks like you might have solved the problem Best Wishes Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted 25 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2010 Are there war diaries available for RE Companies? Thanks Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 March , 2010 Share Posted 25 March , 2010 Just for consideration... In our timescale we also have: Name: GOLDIE, ERNEST Initials: E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Pioneer Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 5th Bn. Special Bde. Date of Death: 09/10/1916 Service No: 129961 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 8 A and 8 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL Name: MEDHURST, FREDERICK JOHN Initials: F J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Pioneer Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 5th Bn. Special Bde. Date of Death: 09/10/1916 Service No: 193063 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 8 A and 8 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL The Special Brigade was the Gas section. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 March , 2010 Share Posted 25 March , 2010 War Diary references: 237th Field Company WO 95/2626 237 Field Company Royal Engineers 1916 May - 1917 Oct. (41st Division in France & Flanders) WO 95/4242 237 Field Company Royal Engineers 1917 Nov. - 1918 Feb. (41st Division in Italy) WO 95/2626 237 Field Company Royal Engineers 1918 Mar. - 1919 Sept. (41st Division in France & Flanders) 83rd Field Company WO 95/2107 83 Field Company Royal Engineers 1915 July - 1919 May (20th Division) 5th Battalion WO 95/122 5 Battalion Royal Engineers 1916 Feb. - 1917 Feb. (GHQ Troops) 5th Field Company WO 95/1330 Divisional Troops: 5 Field Company Royal Engineers 1914 Aug. - 1918 Dec. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 25 March , 2010 Share Posted 25 March , 2010 This thread is even more confusing.... http://omgili.com/jmp/jHIAmI4hxg9DNEjdSUTV...jkJo2duy1A_4V_4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted 25 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2010 This thread is even more confusing.... http://omgili.com/jmp/jHIAmI4hxg9DNEjdSUTV...jkJo2duy1A_4V_4 I suspect what has happened is one of the family have done some research and got Noel Thomas Longland mixed up with Thomas William Longland - who has a SWB card on ancestry which shows enlistment and discharge date. Additionally I suspect they have mixed up 07 Oct 15 and really mean 07 Oct 16 Thanks for all your help - I will update when I find out more. Cheers Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 March , 2010 Share Posted 25 March , 2010 I'll try and chase down some possibly enlistment dates - but he was probably a Derby Scheme attestation and was called up in mid-1916. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted 25 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2010 Steve Cheers for you help on this much appreciated - there was an officer in the RE killed on 7th Oct 16 also and this man was probably part of the team as Noel's son has told me that an officer was killed. Although the Cemetery seems quite distant from the others? Name: FRANCE Initials: A A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Second Lieutenant Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Date of Death: 07/10/1916 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: V. 2. Cemetery: CARNOY MILITARY CEMETERY Cheers Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 25 March , 2010 Share Posted 25 March , 2010 Arthur Alderson France's entry in Du Ruvigny's Roll of Honour: None of the sources actually say what Company he was with.... Since he died of wounds, he is likely to have been at a Casualty Clearing station when he died, whereas the others could have been buried near where they fell. Of course, we have no proof at the moment as to whether this is the right man! Steve. EDIT: 153858 Albert James Farley enlisted on 17-3-1916, and went to France in September 1916. I think his number is close enough to Noel Longland's number to give us a ball-park enlistment date at least. Noel Longland's enlistment should show up on his Silver War Badge roll entry, but if he enlisted under the Derby Scheme then that may not be representative of his call-up date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPCLI Posted 27 March , 2010 Share Posted 27 March , 2010 I checked Lt AA France's file today and its states that he served with the 1st Labour Battalion, Royal Engineers. He died of wounds at 14 Corps Main Dressing Station, 7 Oct 1916. I also checked the 237th and 83rd Coy. diaries (and the others within their respective divisions) but neither gave any names of killed or wounded. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted 28 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2010 Stuart - very grateful for the war diary extract I will send copies of those to Noel's son. I rechecked Langridge's service file and can't see any clues to his unit in Oct 16. Any other suggestions? I could check for service records for the Casualty list men, but not sure how that would necessarily help. Only other chance is if his medal rolls or SWB mention his units - but seems unlikely Cheers Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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