War Diary 1/1 North Somerset Yeomanry 10/11/14

[nf3996]

I searched the East Grinstead local paper a while ago for the August-November 1914 period and transcribed a lot of what it was saying about the NSY's stay at Forest Row. If anyone is interested, I'm happy to post it here.

Alan

[Phil Evans]

Yes please Alan,

I would certainly be interested in the information. That is one avenue I haven't had the chance to explore so far. Where did you source the paper?

Phil

[GEP]

Yes please Alan, my father was at Forest Row with the NSY. Having recorded much of his war in France the missing link is Forest Row.

Thanks.

Philip

[nf3996]

The following is what I have written up so far based on reports in the East Grinstead Observer (seen at the British Library newspaper collection at Colindale), plus something I found online about the Conservators of Ashdown Forest. I hope it is of interest.

Alan

"After 10 days at Winchester, the regiment proceeded to the 1^st South Western Mounted Brigade camp at Kidbrooke Park, just outside the village of Forest Row in Sussex. Kidbrooke Park was reached by a long driveway from the main Eastbourne Road. The large mansion was owned by Lewis Pendarnes Kekewich and had several paddocks, landscaped gardens and small natural waterfalls; occasionally deer wandered into the grounds from the adjoining Ashdown Forest.

The Forest Row area had been used for various militia camps for many years and, at a meeting of the Conservators of Ashdown Forest on 9 October 1914, the Clerk reported that Regulations had been issued under the Defence of the Realm Acts 1914 empowering the naval or military authority by order to authorize the use of land for the training of any part of HM’s naval or military forces. He noted that the Board had already directed him to facilitate such camping of troops on the Forest as the exigencies of the War might render desirable. Army camps had been established at Camp Hill/St John’s Common, at Kingstanding and in Kidbrooke Park; troops encamped at Kidbrooke Park were also making use of the Forest.

The Conservators laid down stipulations for then use of Forest land by the army:

1. When a camp terminated all excavations were to be properly filled in and levelled and the surface restored.

2. That the manure made by the horses was to be left and spread.

3. That the surface was to be seeded down.

4. That the utmost precautions were to be taken to prevent fire and in case of fire the military were to see to its prompt extinction. (A fire had been reported at the Kingstanding camp on 7 October when troops there were clearing undergrowth to create a football pitch).

The Conservators also resolved that the Clerk should write to the Officers commanding each camp, pointing out that the timber and undergrowth upon the Forest was the property of the respective Lords of the Manor and give them information to whom any application relating to such material should be addressed. Also, that in writing to the officer commanding the Camp at Kidbrooke Park, the Clerk should refer to the danger arising from the use of the rifle range at Forest Row and to point out that its use was at the military authorities’ own risk. The range had previously been closed in consequence of its being condemned by the military authorities as very dangerous, but as far as the Conservators were concerned, and having regard to the present state of war, they would raise no objection to its use, provided every possible precaution was taken by the exhibition of red flags, and all other proper methods of warning to prevent the possibility of accidents occurring from its use. The military authorities subsequently decided not to use the rifle range.

At the same meeting an application was made on behalf of the Ashdown Forest Ladies Golf Club for permission to fence their greens during the military occupation due to the proximity of troops to the greens. Under the circumstances, the Conservators made no objection to such fencing.

The Clerk also reported that having received application from the Young Men’s Christian Association to erect tents in connection with the camps at St John’s Common and Camp Hill he wrote to the Secretary granting permission on the condition that every possible precaution be taken to prevent firing the Forest and that when they removed, all rubbish was to be cleared up and the surface restored. Later that month, the East Grinstead Observer reported that:

‘The YMCA has erected a tent for the benefit of the North Somerset Yeomanry in Kidbrooke Park. The tent, which measures 129ft by 22ft has been lent by Mr W G Bradshaw of Down Park, Crawley Down, who has also thoroughly equipped it, and has even provided a piano and a pianola for the amusement of the men. The association encourages the men to write to their friends and relatives by giving them notepaper, envelopes, pens and ink, and in the tent they had tables whereon to write their letters and they can also purchase stamps, postal orders etc there. Refreshments are also provided. Every evening a concert is arranged, at the close of which short prayers are offered, and a hymn and the National Anthem are sung’.

As well as the YMCA tent, the Yeomanry also had use of other facilities in Forest Row for recreation. In September, under the headline ‘Reading room for the soldiers’, the local newspaper had reported:

‘In addition to the Village Hall, which has been placed at the disposal of the soldiers in the neighbourhood, Messrs B and G T Martin have kindly fitted up the barn as a reading and writing room for them and ladies have given magazines and other reading matter for their amusement’.

The Yeomanry also put in regular appearances at church parades at the 9.45am service each Sunday at Forest Row parish church. The local newspaper reported that the attendance of the men at the services was very gratifying, and that they joined in heartily with the singing. They also attended the church’s Harvest Thanksgiving service.

While training continued at Kidbrooke Park, Lieutenant-Colonel Glyn added his voice to the local recruiting campaign. In its edition of 5 September 1914, under the headline ‘Patriotic meeting at Forest Row. Enthusiastic proceedings’, the East Grinstead Observer reported:

‘A large crowd assembled outside the Village Hall, Forest Row, on Tuesday evening, when a meeting arranged by Mr G A D Goslett on behalf of the East Grinstead Recruiting Committee was held for the purpose of recruiting . . . Lieut-Col Geoffrey Glyn DSO said his regiment had marched from Somerset and all had volunteered for the front to a man*, and the men were proud be Tommies (cheers)’.

(*Not so; the Bath Chronicle of 26 September noted that 50 of the regiment’s soldiers had not volunteered to serve abroad.)

Glyn was at it again the following week, when the paper reported a ‘Grand recruiting meeting at East Grinstead’:

‘Lieut-Col Glynn, received with loud cheers, said that when he was ordered to move from Somerset he had no idea he would address an East Grinstead audience . . . He was proud to say that in Somerset Regiments the men had come forward in full strength prepared to go to the front (cheers) . . Recruits were then invited and a number of men went on the platform amid loud cheers.’

From these two meetings, between 70-80 men volunteered to join up.

The North Somerset Yeomanry’s time at Forest Row came to an end in late October. On 31 October, the East Grinstead Observer reported:

‘The North Somerset Yeomanry, who have for some weeks been encamped in Kidbrooke Park, left on Wednesday and Thursday and are probably going abroad’.

On 26 October, orders had been received to go to France on 30 October, but the embarkation was deferred. On 2 November, the regiment at last embarked for France, first by train [from Forest Row station or from East Grinstead station?] to Southampton and then on the SS Rossetti, landing at Le Havre the following day."

[Phil Evans]

Thank you Alan,

I have the Conservators Minutes on file, but have never seen the Observer reports.

I had a feeling that they would have been at Kidbrooke, rather than the Camp as it was still under construction and due to poor siting much of it was abandoned that winter.

As an aside, Lewis Kekewich lost three sons in the war and they are on the village memorial which was erected on the green at the front of the village hall. The attached photo is from my own collection and is dated 1915.

Phil

[Phil Evans]

Here is a picture of the "big house" at Kidbrooke (1906).

A couple of years ago I started putting together a map of the area with WW1 links on it. Click here

The site of the Camp and of Kidbrooke are marked.

Phil

PS Chris, if you are still following this thread, do you know where the Gibbs family photo was taken? There is an identical backdrop and railings at Kidbrooke.

[BottsGreys]

Hi Phil, Alan, & others:

Yes, I have been following this thread with interest--it's great how it has expanded with the contributions of so many keen posters. Phil, unfortunately, the Gibbs photo has no date or location. Mr. Gibbs was an auctioneer and house estate agent. The Gibbs lived at a home called Parkhurst, Park Lane, Bath, and I've always assumed the pic was taken on that property.Given your observation, it would certainly appear the pic was taken when Mr. & Mrs. Gibbs came to Kidbrooke to visit their sons.

Charles Henry Gibbs' pension record has a copy of his signed agreement as a member of the TF to serve overseas. It is dated 19 October, 1914, Forest Row, Sussex.

Chris

[GEP]

Hi Phill and Alan

Great stuff! The article on Forest Row and photos have indeed filled in the missing link for my father, 444 L/Cpl Percy Hale. Thanks to everyone. I just wish his army service records hadn't been burnt!

Philip

[Guest OldChelt66]

Hello, I've just joined The Great War forum have come across the site whilst searching for other material relating to Charles Henry Gibbs. Charles Henry Gibbs was my grandfather, so its pretty amazing to stumble across this additional information. The jpeg picture confirms he was my grandfather, I have a family picture of his mother and father together with his 15 brothers and sisters! If any one on the forum wishes for more information, I'll try my best to oblige. I've various cetificates of birth,marriage, death etc plus some newspaper cuttings, photographs and census info. Best wishes, David Gibbs

[BottsGreys]

Hello David:

Welcome to the Forum--you'll like it here. It sounds like you have information that I would find of interest, and I would be happy to share larger-format scans of the couple of pics I have of Charles and his brother, Fred. Actually, I have a photo album from the family and there are several pics that I would like to identify the individual. Perhaps between the two of us, we can do so. Once you've made 5 posts, you should be able to then use the Personal Message system. If you wish, you can then send me a message with your email address, and I will start off by sending you the higher resolution scans of Charles and Fred.

Chris

[Guest OldChelt66]

Hello Chris,

Thank you for your reply. Still a little unsure of how the forum functions but hopefully you'll receive this. From what I gather, I should get full functionality once I've posted to the forum twice. I'm intrigued to know how you came across the photo of Charles, Fred and their parents together with the photo album. Are we related in an way? Can I just post my email address to you with my next post or do the rules forbid this for the time being? Best wishes

David

[BottsGreys]

Hi David:

I would be hesitant (and most Forum Pals would also discourage) posting my email address on the 'Net for everyone to see--you might end up with a flood of spam, if nothing else. You could just shoot it to me in a Personal Message.

Chris

[Mara]

I am new to this forum and I am researching Joseph Egbert Glass who also died on 17 November 1914. I am a novice when it comes to researching, so would value any advice on how to get started.

Would he have been a volunteer, or was it some kind of territorial service? I am particularly interested in the period before going to France as I have a couple of very brief letters he wrote from Forest Row to his sister. They don't say much, apart from going to play the organ in the church and getting their swords!

[BillyH]

Hello Mara,

The North Somerset Yeomanry had joined up with the 6th Cavalry Brigade on 13th November, and had a tough time on the 17th in the Zillebeke area, a couple of miles S.E. of Ypres.

According to Soldiers Died Great War they had 23 officers & men killed in action on the day (including Joseph Glass). They were in trenches repulsing strong attacks by Prussian Guards.

Private 419 Joseph E. Glass has no known grave but is commemorated on the Menin Gate, see http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=1

There is more to tell you from the Brigade History, but until you have 5 posts on the Forum I cannot send you a PM (personal message) with more details. I also suspect he was a pre-war regular. Hopefully someone more expert than I may be able to help you further.

Regards, BillyH.

[BottsGreys]

Hello Mara:

I searched for Joseph in the British WWI Service Records database on Ancestry.com, but found no record. This is not unexpected as the majority of WWI service records were destroyed during the bombing of London in WWII. Also, Joseph doesn't appear in De Ruvigny's Roll of Honor.

Chris

[nf3996]

I am new to this forum and I am researching Joseph Egbert Glass who also died on 17 November 1914. I am a novice when it comes to researching, so would value any advice on how to get started.

Mara,

I've transcribed the pages of the Bath Chronicle covering the fighting of 17 November, including a lot of first-hand accounts of the fate of many NSY soldiers. If you would like to see these, please send me a PM and I will e-mail them to you. I'd be interested in knowing more about what Joseph said about the Forest Row camp.

Alan

[Mara]

Hi Alan

I'm not sure whether I can PM yet! But I would really like to see the transcripts of the Bath Chronicle. I'll PM as soon as I am able.

One letter is dated Saturday 24th. It's very brief with some personal comments to his sisters first.

... I went for an hour on the organ today, ripping...

Our bayonets have arrived, and our swords are to be given us at the end of this month I think...

(interesting there is a comment in a war diary appendix headed Equipment that the swords they originally got were the old pattern and they had to be reissued with the new pattern - some years ago I managed to see the NSY war diaries and a few appendices at Kew, including one diary in the name of Bingham, Lt Col of 3rd Dragoon Guards which ends 'Where all did so well it is hard to particularise and the N. Somerset Yeo were very steady under fire & behaved gallantly.")

the other letter is undated and mentions the need for a tablet of soap and having about half of the butter left so not wanting any more yet

Hi Chris

I managed to find his medal card, but nothing else.

Would there be any local records for the NSY which would give info on whether they were volunteers?

[Phil Evans]

Hello Mara,

You should be able to PM Alan - give it a try.

The Yeomanry were the mounted section of the Territorials, so yes, volunteers.

While I'm providing the local background (I was born and bred in Forest Row), here is an old photo of the interior of the church where I assume Joseph played the organ:

Phil

[nf3996]

Mara and Gareth,

Thanks for your PMs. I've now e-mailed the Bath Chronicle transcript to you both - all 29 pages of it!

Regards,

Alan

[Steven Broomfield]

I confess I've not looked at this thread before (to my shame). Can someone direct me to the Forest Row memorial, illustrated earlier? I'd like to pay a visit.

Ta.

[Phil Evans]

Hello Steven,

You've obviously led a sheltered life (and ducked out of the Pineapple again last night).

Have you clicked on my map link in Post #31? It's in the middle of the golf course these days, but on public land, so no access problems, just off the A22 (London - Eastbourne road) between Forest Row and Wych Cross. It is dedicated to SWMB, 66th Divisional Artillery and 1B Reserve Brigade RFA, all of which used the Camp at varying times. If you want any photos, PM me, or click on the link to my domain.

Phil

[Steven Broomfield]

Phil - thanks. Tell you what: I'll try and make the next Pineapple outing and we can talk then.

[Phil Evans]

Phil - thanks. Tell you what: I'll try and make the next Pineapple outing and we can talk then.

I'll try and do better myself as well.

[Mara]

Hello Mara,

You should be able to PM Alan - give it a try.

The Yeomanry were the mounted section of the Territorials, so yes, volunteers.

While I'm providing the local background (I was born and bred in Forest Row), here is an old photo of the interior of the church where I assume Joseph played the organ:

Phil

Thanks, that's a great picture to see

[Timbob1001]

Hi all

COuld anyne help with a photocopy/scan of the relevant pages of the Crofton Diaries, 2nd Life Guards, mentioned above for 17/11/14 - thanks!

Tun