tocemma Posted 21 March , 2010 Share Posted 21 March , 2010 Hello all, Another odd one. I think this is unusual on service dress. The seated HLI sergeant centre has his chevrons on the right sleeve only. Note that he also has three dark coloured horizontal bars on his lower right cuff. I know that single rank chevrons were sometimes worn on KD, but I have not noticed being worn on service dress. Judging by the position of the jacket sleeve seam of the sergeant to the left, he also has his chevrons on the right sleeve only. The corporal, right, has his rank on both sleeves. Is this an HLI thing or a Battalion appointment/custom? Must be rare on khaki serge. Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 22 March , 2010 Share Posted 22 March , 2010 Another odd one. I think this is unusual on service dress. The seated HLI sergeant centre has his chevrons on the right sleeve only. Note that he also has three dark coloured horizontal bars on his lower right cuff. I know that single rank chevrons were sometimes worn on KD, but I have not noticed being worn on service dress. Judging by the position of the jacket sleeve seam of the sergeant to the left, he also has his chevrons on the right sleeve only. The corporal, right, has his rank on both sleeves. Is this an HLI thing or a Battalion appointment/custom? Must be rare on khaki serge. It's rare, but it does seem to turn up in various places - for example, in post 5 (and less obviously in post 1) of the following thread, Sergeant Sedgewich can be seen sporting only one chevron on his SD being worn at Jerusalem alongside Sergeant Hurcomb sporting the normal pair on his SD: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...t=0&start=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 29 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2010 Thanks Andrew for the link. Have PM'd Grumpy who is stumped. Joe Sweeney has suggested that it might signify acting rank. Having had a quick look, there is also an example in Steve Chambers excellent book (apologies to Steve for nicking his image) on page 102, the DOWs group. Note the Corporal, left has a single chevron on his right arm, his oppo to the right has them on both sleeves as does the Sgt extreme right (cropped out here) Anyone else have any clear examples? This appears to have happened in very varied units and there must be a reason. I don't think cost saving/economy can be suggested. I'm inclined to think it may well indicate acting rank. Strange though. Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 29 March , 2010 Share Posted 29 March , 2010 Thanks Andrew for the link. Have PM'd Grumpy who is stumped. Joe Sweeney has suggested that it might signify acting rank. Having had a quick look, there is also an example in Steve Chambers excellent book (apologies to Steve for nicking his image) on page 102, the DOWs group. Note the Corporal, left has a single chevron on his right arm, his oppo to the right has them on both sleeves as does the Sgt extreme right (cropped out here) Anyone else have any clear examples? This appears to have happened in very varied units and there must be a reason. I don't think cost saving/economy can be suggested. I'm inclined to think it may well indicate acting rank. Strange though. Regards Tocemma Most actions by the military have a sound reason. So, why bother to identify acting rank? And then it being only obvious from the front or back: from one side he's a corporal, and the other a private. An acting rank has the same delegated authority as a full rank, the main difference being he can lose it at the CO's whim, as opposed to court martial. The Theory of Inherent Military Probability must surely give 'acting' the raspberry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 29 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2010 Hmmmm, yes. Why the variation within units as shown in the photographs? To take The Theory of Inherent Military Probability further, there must be a reason for this. This is all very odd and I'm sure we will find more examples as we dig. There is seemingly no connection between these units and I am mystified by this, especially when there are men of the same rank standing side by side. TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 29 March , 2010 Share Posted 29 March , 2010 Might just be a question of supply and demand? Scenario: action casualties/ postings/ detachments/ sickness hits the NCO population of the 2nd Mummersets, CO promotes several men [acting or otherwise] to corporal rank, quarter bloke says "sorry, nearly out of stock, strictly one badge each till next Shrove Tuesday Eve ..........." For the moment, I am not minded to compile a list of units improperly dressed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john gregory Posted 29 March , 2010 Share Posted 29 March , 2010 I agree with Grumpy on this, it seems the most logical thing to do, on another thread there is a corporal who has added another single stripe to make sergeant, obviously there were no complete sergeant's stripes available so he " made do ". JG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 29 March , 2010 Share Posted 29 March , 2010 Might just be a question of supply and demand? Quite agree with you - unlikely that rank badges would be taken from the uniforms of casualties so replacement NCO's would have to take what the Quartermaster had available - in the front line and immediate back areas, not a lot I shouldn't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 29 March , 2010 Share Posted 29 March , 2010 Devil's advocate: what will cripple the shortage theory is a shiny unit obviously in barracks in UK. Standing by! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 29 March , 2010 Share Posted 29 March , 2010 I do like a mystery. My tuppence worth, never underestimate the power of the RSM and RQMS. Not all the regs in creation had a chance against them. The bloke in the stores was generally the final arbiter in any situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 29 March , 2010 Share Posted 29 March , 2010 Hi I had never considered this unusual as the only time I ever wore two was in No2 Dress so I have gone through and found a few AND some of them are obviously taken in UK. So here goes 1st one Northumberland Fusiliers I think TF hope MR Stewart agrees. Second one 2nd Line Glamorgan Yeomanry in UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 29 March , 2010 Share Posted 29 March , 2010 the thot plickens! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 29 March , 2010 Share Posted 29 March , 2010 Third one Scottish Horse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 29 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2010 Thank you John, Shiny UK units, and clearly all suffering from shortages. Must be the 1915 stripe scandal, all the stripe makers were in the pub spending their overtime money. I think there is more to this one...... Keep em coming! Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 29 March , 2010 Share Posted 29 March , 2010 Fourth one 3rd Bn Seaforth Highlanders Bombing School The man seated front centre has a stripe but is named as a Private on the back. Close up of right arm and is that an MM ribbon? Last one Black Watch seated with two standing left with only one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 29 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2010 Brilliant. The plot does indeed thicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 30 March , 2010 Share Posted 30 March , 2010 Well well ............ I think we do need a list! In all my [considerable] time grubbing around in Great War miscellanea, I have never ever focussed on this strange phenomenon. Could it be that the left side badge [in nearly every case] is made of a different material, impossible to be detected by orthochromatic film? Thought not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 30 March , 2010 Share Posted 30 March , 2010 The national shortage also hit the RE Signals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 2 April , 2010 Share Posted 2 April , 2010 unearthing cans of worms is what we do! I can see the headlines "ANOTHER SCANDAL OF THE WAR, SOLVED BY OUR VERY OWN LLOYD-GEORGE" "as we write, extra rank badges are being churned out by the factories, working day and night, and rushed to the troops" Seriously, this is really very interesting to a nerd like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 2 April , 2010 Share Posted 2 April , 2010 Shiny UK units, and clearly all suffering from shortages. Must be the 1915 stripe scandal, all the stripe makers were in the pub spending their overtime money. I think there is more to this one...... Tocemma Could there be something in the mention of a shortage? There was a shortage of everything else so why not rank chevrons? With large orders being placed with selected suppliers it must have taken a while for them to get up to speed. The different styles of stitching could be due to what manufacturers could supply as opposed to what was regulation. Just a thought and prepared to be shot down in flames as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 3 April , 2010 Share Posted 3 April , 2010 I don't think we will ever know, but what we do know is it happened at the front and at Home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimyridge Posted 6 April , 2010 Share Posted 6 April , 2010 Just to toss this in, ....here in Canada we only wore one chevron rank on the Right arm prior to the Great War. Here are photo's of the 106th Regt' "leaving for the front" (most likely prior to leaving for Valcartier camp as they are still wearing the scarlet tunics) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 April , 2010 Share Posted 6 April , 2010 Superb photos, thank you. The ONLY garments on which the British army wore ranking on both sleeves were indeed SD jacket and SD overcoat, from 1902. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 6 April , 2010 Share Posted 6 April , 2010 Could it be that the left side badge [in nearly every case] is made of a different material, impossible to be detected by orthochromatic film? Thought not. David - I'll have a look to see if the GIMP imaging software has a Plug-In to automatically add in missing orthochromatic rank chevrons. What do you think it would be called? StripeUp maybe? Or LeftOff-LeftOn? Cheers, Mark PS Home PC *appears* to be mended, but I still have the back off, various bits spread over the floor and I'm obliged to use a temporary keyboard till I get time to re-assemble it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 April , 2010 Share Posted 6 April , 2010 sooner you than me! I have GIMP automatically putting the missing chevrons in, but it cannot manage crowns etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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