164th Brigade Tranch Mortar Battery April 1918

[shaun_gillespie]

Its a long shot, but is there anyone who would know where the 164th Brigade TMB where on 9th April 1918. My Gt Uncle, Lt JE Fenn was with them and died that day. I am going to the Givenchy Festubert area to pay respects in a few weeks, but am having trouble knowing where exactly he would have been when he died. He is buried in Festubert.

Thanks

Shaun

[Ken Lees]

Shaun,

The information you require would be found in the TMB war diary at the National Archives.

Ken

[Ian Riley]

Shaun/Ken,

Unfortunately, the relevant date does not appear to be there. I have been searching for the 166 TMB diary for July/August 1917 with minimal success. The entries that do exist are very brief and cover a limited period in 1916. The 164 TMB diary seems to exist (according to the National Archives catalogue) only for August 1916 - see link below.

WO95/2924 164 Infantry Brigade: Trench Mortar Battery (1916 August) click link

I should be very glad to know of the existence/whereabouts of the TMB diaries. For 166 TMB only 1916 Mar to August seems to exist. Is this the position in other divisions? I have just glanced at the NA Catalogue for the 56th (London) Division and there is a similar scarcity of TMB diaries. Maybe with their small size, they were not required to keep a diary after 1916. Could they have been filed elsewhere although this seems unlikely. Were the batteries under control of their brigade HQ (as their title suggests) or were they co-ordinated by the Commander Royal Artillery at Divisional HQ?

It might be more profitable to look in the 164 Infantry Brigade Headquarters Diary for April 1918 or even in the months prior given that the 55th Division was in a constant state of rehearsal at this stage and seemed to be occupying their battle positions.

WO 95/2921 164 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters 1917 August to 1919 April click link

Unfortunately, I do not have time just at the moment to trawl the Liverpool Record Office 55th Division papers for any clues. Indeed, if he was 2ic of the battery from March 1918 (as suggested by the London Gazette entry for the March promotion to lieutenant for James Edmund Fenn published in May, I think, ie after his death), it might be difficult to pin down his location. Perhaps a TMB expert could outline the rôle of the 2ic of a battery but it would not surprise me if it was connected to the replenishment of ammunition. It is possible that the job might take him anywhere in the brigade area, which itself will not be huge. The 55th Division diaries for either March or April might give the location of the 164 TMB in an operation order.

Unfortunately, I have, as yet, no HQ 55th Division or HQ 164 Brigade diary material for 1918 and the typescript war diary for only one battalion of the brigade; I will look there for any clues.

Ian

[shaun_gillespie]

Thanks for the reply, its really appreciated. Not sure when I will get to Kew, would they be held anywhere else? Shaun