Missing Maurice-? KIA Galllipoli or ? KIA Hulluch

[cathal1972]

I am researching a soldier, Maurice Murphy for a friend (Maurice is his grand-uncle) and have hit a wall-I wonder if any pals can help?

We have found his brother Joe Murphy:

Name: MURPHY, JOHN JOSEPH

Initials: J J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Munster Fusiliers

Unit Text: 6th Bn.

Date of Death: 13/08/1915

Service No: 3923

Additional information: Son of Mrs. Mary Ellen Murphy, of 1, Rope Walk, Wises Hill, Cork.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 185 to 190.

Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

Family lore has it that Maurice also served in Gallipoli and died within a few weeks of his brother Joe. However a trawl through CWGC website does not identify any one of this name who died in this theatre at this time.

I have obtained all the MICs of of all Maurice and Morris Murphys, and the best fit is, I think:

MURPHY

Initials: M

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Lance Corporal

Regiment/Service: Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

Unit Text: 7th Bn.

Date of Death: 28/04/1916

Service No: 28649

Additional information: Son of Ellen Murphy, of 2, Vincents Avenue, Cork.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: I. E. 25.

Cemetery: PHILOSOPHE BRITISH CEMETERY, MAZINGARBE

By the date and burial location I assume that this Maurice died at Hulluch.

My current best guess is that this is him, but I am not convinced. The mothers name Ellen, is correct, although the address is not.

Any suggestions as to where to turn next gratefully received.

Best wishes,

Cathal.

[ulsterlad2]

Hi Cathal, the 7th Inniskilling Murphy was previously in the HLI. Does that ring any bells with the family?

[cathal1972]

Hi Cathal, the 7th Inniskilling Murphy was previously in the HLI. Does that ring any bells with the family?

Thanks Ulsterlad-I found the HLI link recently, and no, no resonance with the family.

As far as they believe, both brothers were RMF and died within a few weeks of each other in Gallipoli. Of course, as we know, family knowledge wanes as time passes, so this may not be the case.

Interestingly, a a reference to Joe's death in the Cork Examiner newspaper at the time (courtesy of GWF member Sean, who is part of a group working on a book about Cork's war dead-thanks Sean), indicates that Joe died while trying to save his wounded officer-no other details.

Thanks for the interest.

C.

[MartinWills]

I wonder, do the family still have the medals? If so you should be able to find the numbers and units from the info on them (look at the rim).

We are also possibly into the realm of mis-transcrtibed names........ where anything is possible.

[Verrico2009]

My current best guess is that this is him, but I am not convinced. The mothers name Ellen, is correct, although the address is not.

There just doesn't seem to be a better candidate. Thought I might have nailed it then realised the man I was following died too early.

I can only think that the details merged in the minds of the family: news was a lot slower to filter through then and I imagine Gallipoli was the battle that most people would easily recognise.

As for the addresses, that is more difficult to overcome. Presumably it took CWGC some time to collate all the responses on the NoK forms (no online forms like today!) and perhaps their mother moved inbetween times?

Only other comment is that I see John Joseph was entitled to a 1915 Star (qualifying date 9.7.15), while the Maurice cited didn't so presumably went into theatre after December 1915. Does that accord with what you know - ie would Maurice have been younger, say? And are the family sure Maurice was his first name? There are Murphys at the Lancashire Landing Cemetery and some of the others around that area.

[cathal1972]

Martin, Verrico,

many thanks for the suggestions-will look further as you suggest. I don't believe the medals are in family hands but will check.

The mis-transcription suggestion I suspect might be a better bet-I will dig a bit deeper into the other Gallipoli Murphy's.

Much obliged to both of you.

Regards,

Cathal.

[KevinBattle]

What about this entry on CWGC?

Name: MURPHY, DENIS

Initials: D

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Munster Fusiliers

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Age: 23

Date of Death: 24/08/1915

Service No: 8907

Additional information: Son of Ellen Murphy, of "Parkholohne," Togher Rd., Cork, and the late John Murphy.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 185 to 190.

Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

He might be more closer related to the M Murphy with Ellen as the only Christian Name, but the John Murphy might help sort out who is with with family.....