Merchant Navy in Russia

[pauldesmondwhite]

Can't seem to find any reference to Merchant Navy participation. The family has a perhaps garbled story that my grandfather (who eventually became a P&O steward) was in Russia in the early '20s. He was George Thomas Murphy, born 7 Nov 1900 in Waterloo.

I found the following medal "roll" in BT 395/1 through the NA Documents Online, believe the second entry to be a possible reference to him.

Presumably R282040 is his discharge reference number and 16.2.21 the discharge date. I'd like to know what 134985 signifies (quasi-RN service number???), and the meaning of the circled items 1989, AT, WM (British War Medal?). Would a merchant seaman be entitled to these?

Here is a crop of a photo he had made for his (future?) wife. He seems to display 2 or 3 medal ribbons and there is some kind of emblem on his cap and tunic buttons.

Hope someone has the time to help and this isn't a wild goose chase. Many thanks.

Paul

Edited 18 March , 2010 by Paul White

[welshdoc]

His bar looks like the British war medal (the colours "look" wrong but this is due to the film used at the time, see lots of threads about BWM ribbon colour in pics)and the Mercantile marine medal. Which would be the correct entitlement if he served up to Nov 1918. Not sure about the mercantile marine medal post Nov 1918 but the BWM would be an entilement up to 1920.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Welcome to the forum Paul,

1) ... I found the following medal "roll" in BT 395/1 through the NA Documents Online, believe the second entry to be a possible reference to him.

2) ... 16.2.21

3) the meaning of the circled items 1989, AT, WM (British War Medal?)...

1) ... this medal "roll" is for WW2 not WWI. The WWI Mercantile Marine Medal Index Cards are in BT 351 on microfiche at Kew not online. I agree about the identification of the ribbons. There would have been no problem with him serving at sea before he was 18!

2) This is his date of birth, so not your man.

3) 1939-45 Star, Atlantic Star, British War Medal WW2 version. The Merchant Navy were key for the Battle of the Atlantic and were given more recognition in WW2 than they were in WWI.

Edited 18 March , 2010 by per ardua per mare per terram

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Have you tried searching for his post war service? Here is the research guide for seamen:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...?sLeafletID=128

and for officers:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...?sLeafletID=131

The Ships & Navies sub forum is an area you might find some help.

[pauldesmondwhite]

Welcome to the forum Paul,

1) ... this medal "roll" is for WW2 not WWI. The WWI Medal Index Cards are in BT 351 on microfiche at Kew not online.

2) This is his date of birth, so not your man.

3) 1939-45 Star, Atlantic Star, British War Medal WW2 version. The Merchant Navy were key for the Battle of the Atlantic and were given more recognition in WW2 than they were in WWI.

Well, that was a bad start for me, wasn't it? Thanks ever so much for clearing it up.

Paul

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Glad I could help, hope the revised post is clearer too.

[SPotter]

And the 'R' number is probably a reference to his Discharge Book number, though the R prefix is most commonly found relating to Certificates of Competence.

Regards

Steve

[pauldesmondwhite]

Thanks for that, too, Steve.