Frederick Morris Walker

[lukerwhite]

This is what I know:

Frederick Morris Walker -

16^th Battalion Rifle Brigade 1315

Birth Place: 1875 Hampstead

Occupation: Scaffolder

Next of Kin: Ellen Louisa Walker (Married 11 Oct 1896)

1 Streathy Buildings, Streathy Place,

Heath Street, Hampstead

Attestation Location: Whitehall, St Pancras, London

Attestation date: 11 Jun 1915 (38 years old)

Address on Attestation: 1 Streathy Buildings, Streathy Place, Heath Street, Hampstead

Height: 5 foot 2"

Chest: 36 inches (Range of expansion 2&1/2 inches)

Weight: 114 Ibs

Eyes:

Hair:

Distinctive Marks: C of E???

Rank: Rifleman

Timeline:

11 Jun 1915 Attested

11 Jun 1915 Posted to 16th (Service) Battalion, Rifle Brigade (St Pancras)

August 1915 the battalion moved to Hursley Park near Winchester

14 Oct 1915 Posted to 17^th Rifle Brigade - a new Reserve Battalion - formed from the Depot Companies of 16/RB. It is likely his deafness was raising cause for concern as to his likely suitability for the Front Line.

30 Dec 1915 Posted to 16^th Rifle Brigade who were by now at Witley Camp near Godalming in Surrey.

16 Jan 1916 Travelling Medical Board decided he is permanently unfit due to deafness originating from 1907

19 Jan 1916 Discharged (Witley Camp, Surrey)

Discharged: Due to deafness [chronic Otitis Media Adhesiva and that his eardrums had retracted] (16 Jan 1916)

Could anyone tell me any more about him or his battalion - why did he get posted all over the place?

[sotonmate]

LW

He only attested 11.6.1915 when the 16th were already in France (from 8.3.1915 according to the LLT). He must have been in France from Sep 1914 with another unit and returned home on 5.2.1915. Maybe he had reached the end of his regular service and time expired,which is maybe why he attested again on 11.6.1915. I have seen this odd phenomenon on other records,when you would expect a soldier to continue serving in wartime he has to come home because his time is up ! The 17th Bn was a Reserve Battalion which didn't start up until Oct 1915 ! As you have no further dates for service in France I can't see how he served in the 16th.

It may be that his hearing difficulties were exacerbated by his 1914-15 service in France so he only ever stayed in the UK for the rest of his time to discharge.

Sotonmate

[MBrockway]

His medals appear to be listed on the Royal Field Artillery rolls.

From your copious info, I assume you have his Service Record? Any mention of prior service in the RFA?

Is his RB Service Number = 1315?

I've had very little joy tracing him in the RB. Do you have a SWB roll reference for his Discharge?

Cheers,

Mark

[lukerwhite]

Mark,

His regimental no. is 1315 - i have this info from his pension record. No other sources that i could find im afraid,

I haven't seen this MIC for the RFA - is it the same regimental no. on it? Will have a look for it tonight.

[MBrockway]

I haven't seen this MIC for the RFA - is it the same regimental no. on it? Will have a look for it tonight.

Luke - nor have I! And I had no luck finding it myself either

I was inferring you had an MIC from the info in your first post viz

Medals: British War Medal (Roll: RFA 334B Page: 47145)

Victory War Medal (Roll: RFA 334B Page: 47145)

14 Star (Roll: RFA Page: 9)

The KRRC and RB medal rolls all have the "M" prefix. These look like RFA medal rolls to me, which perhaps suggests Frederick served (and went deaf!) in the artillery.

Clearly he could not have earnt entitlement to the 1914 Star from his 16/KRRC service if he did not attest with the KRRC until mid 1915.

Cheers,

Mark

[MBrockway]

He only attested 11.6.1915 when the 16th were already in France (from 8.3.1915 according to the LLT).

Sotonmate

Sotonmate,

I'm sorry to say that's an error on the Mother Site

16/RB actually went out in March 1916 not March 1915.

The 16th (St Pancras) Btn, RB was formed on 02 Apr 1915, so did not even exist on 08 Mar 1915!

Rest of your hypothesis looks spot on to me though - a time served Regular (probably a gunner) who re-enlisted but was then discharged due to deafness.

Cheers,

Mark

[sotonmate]

Mark

I did consider that date error was a possibility,but.....it's good someone should know that it is !

Sotonmate

[lukerwhite]

That MIC shouldn't have gone out on my first post. That is for one of my other ancestors! I have been doing WI profiles for all family member over the past week and putting them on the great forum. Do apologize old chaps but it did get you talking at least. Have revised to stop further confusion!

As I said before I only have his pension records (Not his MIC!).

To put the record straight. His deafness was something he already had before enlistment, starting in 1907. The reason is not given but a medical term is used and a description of what he can hear is given in the pension record. He is seen as permanantly unfit for the army by the travelling medical board and discharged.

Can you help me out with anything else?

[MBrockway]

That MIC shouldn't have gone out on my first post. That is for one of my other ancestors! I have been doing WI profiles for all family member over the past week and putting them on the great forum. Do apologize old chaps but it did get you talking at least. Have revised to stop further confusion!

Apology accepted old chap - we all can make a mistake, and I'll put the fifteen minutes spent trying to find an RFA MIC to a Walker down to experience!

Can we rely on the reported 15 years 289 days of pre-war military service? That takes him back well before 1907.

Mark

[MBrockway]

As I said before I only have his pension records (Not his MIC!).

To put the record straight. His deafness was something he already had before enlistment, starting in 1907. The reason is not given but a medical term is used and a description of what he can hear is given in the pension record. He is seen as permanantly unfit for the army by the travelling medical board and discharged.

Can you help me out with anything else?

Luke,

Can you post a link to his Pension Record on Ancestry please?

The only Frederick Morris WALKER I can find was Discharged in 1894!

There's too many plain Frederick Walkers to check each in turn when you've already found him - can you help us out here?

Cheers,

Mark

[MBrockway]

Luke,

Would the Residence be Streatley Place rather than Streathy Place?

There's a Streatley Place very close to to Garden Place, Hampstead where Frederick shows up in the 1881 and 1891 censuses.

Cheers,

Mark

[lukerwhite]

Haha! Right, I have him at garden place in thise census too. I also have him at streath place on 11th oct 1896 when he married Ellen Louisa Castle.

Hope this link takes you to his pension record ok:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.d...71080873_g32768

The 15 years service is an interesting one.....it appears to be another mistake! Will remove from original posting. Not sure what happened here. Think i should be confined to my barracks as punishment!

Hopefully this should be the last of the mistakes!!

Luke,

Would the Residence be Streatley Place rather than Streathy Place?

There's a Streatley Place very close to to Garden Place, Hampstead where Frederick shows up in the 1881 and 1891 censuses.

Cheers,

Mark

[MBrockway]

Luke,

Now I've gone through his Pension Record, it all seems pretty clear.

Frederick enlisted into The Rifle Brigade at Whitehall on 11 Jun 1915 and was given Service Number P/1315 ... not 1315

The alphabetic prefixes are very important in the KRRC and RB numbering schema as they have specific meanings. They should always be included when requesting help with rifles regiment men. In this case the P prefix signifies 16th Rifle Brigade, which you already know, but 1315 without the P prefix would have signified a Regular ... in fact one William Hillier in this case.

He attested using Form B2505, so he was not a Derby Scheme (see the Mother Site) man, but June 1915 would be too early for that anyway.

Under Q.7 of the Attestation Form, he states he has had no previous military service.

He was posted to 16th (Service) Battalion, Rifle Brigade (St Pancras) who were still in England training, having only been formed on 02 Apr 1915 some nine weeks earlier. With a Service Number of P/1315 though, he was a late recruit as the battalion was already well recruited by late May.

Late recruits were often formed into Depot or Reserve Companies.

In August 1915, the battalion moved to Hursley Park near Winchester.

In October 1915 a new Reserve Battalion was formed - 17th Battalion - from the Depot Companies of 16/RB. Frederick was transferred to this new battalion on 14 Oct 1915. It is likely his deafness was raising cause for concern as to his likely suitability for the Front Line.

On 30 Dec 1915 he was transferred back to 16/RB who were by now at Witley Camp near Godalming in Surrey.

Almost immediately he underwent a Medical Board resulting in his Discharge a few days later in early Jan 1916. It is probable that this transfer was specifically to get him before a doctor for a re-assessment of his deafness, which might have been more difficult at a Reserve Battalion at the Depot.

The Medical Board found he had deafness due to chronic Otitis Media Adhesiva and that his eardrums had retracted, which would indicate a long-standing and permanent condition with no improvement likely. His deafness was considered hereditary and familial and not the result of military service.

He was deemed unfit for further military service, even for Depot duties in the UK, and Discharged under King's Reg Para 392 (c c) ...

His service was 223 days, all in England.

He does not seem to have been issued with the Silver War Badge: I cannot find him glancing through the RB rolls and there is no mention of it in his Pension Records.

With the correct P/1315 Service Number, I could still not find any MIC. If he'd had a SWB, there would probably have been an MIC for that. He did not go Overseas, and was not awarded the Campaign Medals, so no MIC there either.

On page two of his Attestation Form, where you've read "Cob" under Distinctive Marks, I think that actually reads "C of E" - i.e. Church of England.

I hope that clarifies everything now!

Was Frederick a relation?

Cheers,

Mark

[lukerwhite]

Can't thank you enough Mark.

You have come up trumps again. I would never have known any of that without your help, thankyou. Will update my original post profile to suit.

Yes he is my relation, he is my great gandmother (Eleanor Walker b.1880) brother.

I originaly thought it said C of E under distinctive marks (before changing my mind to cob). He obviously had no scars or tattoos so his religion had to do?????

Luke