Edward Alfred Cross - Royal Defence Corps

[lukerwhite]

This is all i know:

Edward Alfred Cross -

Royal Defence Corps 112^th P Company 2718

Birth Place:

1882 Poplar

Occupation:

Box Maker / Packing case maker

Next of Kin:

Attestation Location:

Attestation date:

Address on Attestation:

Height:

Chest:

Weight:

Physical Development:

Rank: Private

Timeline:

28 Oct 1914 - Enlisted

15 Apr 1918 - Discharged

Medals:

Discharged: Cause: S A. order 265/17 Para: 2.D. (15 Apr 19180)

He died 1956 in Poplar. Can anyone fill in the blanks? Can anyone tell me his and his units movements - did they leave the UK? What was the RDC's job. What would he have experienced?

[lukerwhite]

I have read the following on Wikipedia:

The Royal Defence Corps was a corps of the British Army formed in August 1917 and disbanded in 1936.

It was initially formed by converting the (Home Service) Garrison battalions of line infantry regiments. Garrison battalions were composed of soldiers either too old or medically unfit for active front-line service; the Home Service status indicated they were unable to be transferred overseas. Eighteen battalions were converted in this way[1].

The role of the regiment was to provide troops for security and guard duties inside the United Kingdom; guarding important locations such as ports or bridges. It also provided independent companies for guarding prisoner-of-war camps. The regiment was never intended to be employed on overseas service

I wonder then if the RDC didn't form until 1917 then how he enlisted in 1914?

I wonder how he was deemed unfit for service abroad as he was only middle thirties?

Can anyone tell me what of the above kind of duties the 112th P Company would have participated?

[sjustice]

Hello Luke,

He would have been employed guarding POWs or important home installations like ports. He was probably wounded on active service THEN transferred to the RDC.

Check out these two threads:

RDC Research Thread

RDC - So little info..?

Good luck,

Simon

[ulsterlad2]

Hi Luke

In sdgw: RDC has 632 named casualties. The vast, vast majority are all "Formerly 1234 ***shire Regt. I would guess that Cross must be the same. He has enlisted in 1914 in another regiment and then consequently in the RDC due to his ill health.

[KevinBattle]

Is that a typo for boX maker, not boa maker (unless he had a fetish for feathers!

Have you traced anything about previous service? Whatever caused his transfer to the RDC, he lived almost another 40 years, till '56. Does anyone in the family recall any infirmities or what could have been wounds? (scars, limp, missing digits etc)?

[lukerwhite]

All I have is a MIC and there is no metion of previous regiments so i am guessing he must have had some disability before his enlistment. Do you think this would be the case?

Luke

[lukerwhite]

Is that a typo for boX maker, not boa maker (unless he had a fetish for feathers!

Have you traced anything about previous service? Whatever caused his transfer to the RDC, he lived almost another 40 years, till '56. Does anyone in the family recall any infirmities or what could have been wounds? (scars, limp, missing digits etc)?

I have a possible for him on the 1901c as a 'Patient' but not sure for what....and yes it does look as though he is a Boa maker as his occupation to me. I am not sure which institution this is and why he is there but it is definately a hospital, i have Kidbrooke Hospital but can't see where i got that from. Perhaps this has something to do with it being enlisted into the RDC. Was Kidbrooke Hospital a military hospital?

I noticed the man above him on the census was from the royal field artillery (this is the link to ancestry to see the full record -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=vi...amp;pid=4300815

Luke

[Stebie9173]

I think the occupation says boxmaker - card (i.e. Cardboard box maker). The "Paper" not above is usually an add-on when the statisticians go through the census to determine the industries in which workers are employed.

Steve.

[lukerwhite]

I think the occupation says boxmaker - card (i.e. Cardboard box maker). The "Paper" not above is usually an add-on when the statisticians go through the census to determine the industries in which workers are employed.

Steve.

Cheers Stebie,

I couldn't read that 'paper' bit on the census. This does fit a lot better with his later occuption as packing case maker.

[themonsstar]

Copy of his SWB page

[MBrockway]

I have a possible for him on the 1901c as a 'Patient' but not sure for what....and yes it does look as though he is a Boa maker as his occupation to me. I am not sure which institution this is and why he is there but it is definately a hospital, i have Kidbrooke Hospital but can't see where i got that from. Perhaps this has something to do with it being enlisted into the RDC. Was Kidbrooke Hospital a military hospital?

I noticed the man above him on the census was from the royal field artillery (this is the link to ancestry to see the full record -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=vi...amp;pid=4300815

Luke

Luke,

That link shows him at the 1901 Census as being a patient at the Brook Hospital, Woolwich.

Not sure where you've got Kidbrooke from - as before, my advice is to research slowly and carefully and keep your notes very well organised, no matter how exciting the trail becomes!

The Brook Hospital opened in 1896 as one of the hospitals for infectious diseases built and maintained by the Metropolitan Asylums Board. It was situated on Shooters Hill Road in Woolwich. In 1930 on the dissolution of the Metropolitan Asylum Board the hospital was transferred to the London County Council. In 1938 it had 552 beds and was one of the principal London County Council fever hospitals for such diseases as scarlet fever and measles.

I see no obvious reason to connect him being in a general hospital in 1901 with joining the RDC during the Great War.

See here:

Ancestry - 1901 Census: Description of Brook Hospital

The Records from the Brook Hospital are lodged at the London Metropolitan Archive in Clerkenwell and are available for public inspection, though the individual patients' personal records are closed for 100 years.

Worth contacting them if Alfred is another of your relatives. You may find out what he was in for in 1901 as that's well outside the 100 year rule. Make sure you make it clear he is a relation of yours (if indeed he is). It looks like it was one of the general hospitals treating acute infectious diseases like scarlet fever, measles etc. rather than chronic diseases like tuberculosis etc. These were much more serious before the advent of antibiotic therapies.

See here:

London Metropolitan Archive: Brook Hospital Archive

Good luck!

Cheers,

Mark

[lukerwhite]

Copy of his SWB page

Thanks for that ThemStar,

Has put a seed of doubt whether he is my man though as he was 35 when he was discharged according to his birth date of 1883.

It states 45 yrs on this SWB roll. Do you think this could be a mistake on the roll or am I am I barking up the wrong tree on this one?

[lukerwhite]

Luke,

That link shows him at the 1901 Census as being a patient at the Brook Hospital, Woolwich.

Not sure where you've got Kidbrooke from - as before, my advice is to research slowly and carefully and keep your notes very well organised, no matter how exciting the trail becomes!

The Brook Hospital opened in 1896 as one of the hospitals for infectious diseases built and maintained by the Metropolitan Asylums Board. It was situated on Shooters Hill Road in Woolwich. In 1930 on the dissolution of the Metropolitan Asylum Board the hospital was transferred to the London County Council. In 1938 it had 552 beds and was one of the principal London County Council fever hospitals for such diseases as scarlet fever and measles.

I see no obvious reason to connect him being in a general hospital in 1901 with joining the RDC during the Great War.

See here:

Ancestry - 1901 Census: Description of Brook Hospital

The Records from the Brook Hospital are lodged at the London Metropolitan Archive in Clerkenwell and are available for public inspection, though the individual patients' personal records are closed for 100 years.

Worth contacting them if Alfred is another of your relatives. You may find out what he was in for in 1901 as that's well outside the 100 year rule. Make sure you make it clear he is a relation of yours (if indeed he is). It looks like it was one of the general hospitals treating acute infectious diseases like scarlet fever, measles etc. rather than chronic diseases like tuberculosis etc. These were much more serious before the advent of antibiotic therapies.

See here:

London Metropolitan Archive: Brook Hospital Archive

Good luck!

Cheers,

Mark

Thanks Mark,

You have helped me out on numerous occasions! He is my partners great grandfather (brother of Robert James) see pic from my ancestry tree.

Thanks for finding out that it was Brook Hospital at Woolwich? I dont know how you got to that page on Ancestry? Could you let me know for future use. I can see now where i got 'Kidbrooke' from - Brooke Hospital is located within the pariah and joint district of Kidbrooke!

Thanks for the advice to slow down but noy sure i can follow it!! I have a very organised and detailed tree on ancestry but must admit i have been a bit haphazard on the great war forum. Apologies!

Will definately be tring to see what he was admitted for. Looks like he may not have been in the RDC now as he is shown as 45 on the SWB roll on discharge and should only be 35. Unless this is a mistake on the roll then i think he may be another Edward Alfred Cross - most likely to be Alfred Edward Cross (who swapped his first and middle name around like they so often do to confyse us all!) who was born 1873 Oct-Dec in Bethnal Green Volume 1c Page 221. At least now i can rule him out of serving in the RDC!

Please let me know how you got to that page on Ancestry.

Many Thanks,

Luke

[MBrockway]

Thanks Mark,

Thanks for finding out that it was Brook Hospital at Woolwich? I dont know how you got to that page on Ancestry? Could you let me know for future use. I can see now where i got 'Kidbrooke' from - Brooke Hospital is located within the pariah and joint district of Kidbrooke!

Please let me know how you got to that page on Ancestry.

Many Thanks,

Luke

Luke,

Always happy to help another member of the Rifles Family on the Forum! I just wish I had your energy!

As regards the Ancestry page ...

Go to the 1901 Census page for Edward Cross on Ancestry here:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=vi...amp;pid=4300815

(this is the same link you posted earlier)

Immediately above the pane showing the census image, you should see the following ...

London > Kidbrooke > District Brook Hospital > 23

The jargon for these is "breadcrumbs" - they show you where this item of data fits in a larger body of data - in this case the full 1901 Census data.

Edward Cross's entry is in Record 23 of the Brook Hospital Census Enumeration District or ED.

The Brook Hospital ED is one of the Enumeration Districts in the Charlton Census Sub-Registration District or SRD, which in turn is in the Woolwich Census Registration District or RD.

These various geographical entities were set up for the purposes of the 1901 Census, but in general they align with Registration Districts used for registering Births, Marriages and Deaths, which in turn usually align with more general administrative units like Civil Parishes and Counties, though this is not always the case.

The Ancestry breadcumbs present a bit of a blend of the census districts and the larger administrative districts.

Thus instead of showing the SRD and the RD, these breadcumbs switch over to showing the Civil Parish or CP (= Kidbrooke) and the County (= London), which is probably more useful to most genealogists than the RD and SRD would be anyway!

If you want to get a general description of a census Enumeration District, just click on the breadcrumb for the ED - in this case the one that says District Brook Hospital.

A new window will open that shows ALL the EDs in the same Civil Parish (in this case Kidbrooke) ...

You'll see that the Kidbrooke CP only has three census EDs: two hospitals and ED #11.

ED 11 contains all the streets of the Kidbrooke Civil Parish in a single ED, which is unusual.

If you click on View description of enumeration district, it'll display the Census record that describes the exact boundaries and contents of the ED. Usually this is a load of streets - which can be incredibly helpful - but in the case of a Hospital or similar Institution it gives a bit of info about the institution, its exact address etc.

This is the page I linked to in my earlier post.

This little trick can also be a very good way of finding the census entries for Military Barracks by the way - very handy!

e.g. here's the ED list for Woolwich ...

If you click on the ED hyperlinks instead then it takes you to the first record for that ED. You can then browse the census records for the ED page by page. That can be useful if you want to search by street instead of by surname.

Hope all that makes sense!

Cheers,

Mark

[lukerwhite]

Luke,

Always happy to help another member of the Rifles Family on the Forum! I just wish I had your energy!

Hope all that makes sense!

Cheers,

Mark

Thanks Mark!

Am going to try this out for another relative...this time not a great war relative but William Cox - who was a soldier in 1871 at Anglesea Barracks (Portsea, hamps - http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=vi...mp;pid=27291001) and a Royal Fusilier in 1875! Great tip, many thanks!

[lukerwhite]

Thanks again Mark.

Do you think this says Stretham? the fortifications in the town of Portsea?

[KevinBattle]

Within the fortifications in the Town of Portsea, I believe

[lukerwhite]

Within the fortifications in the Town of Portsea, I believe

Thanks Kevin,

Will wind up this post now. Thanks for everyones help.