Charles William Woodfield Warks and MGC service

[armourersergeant]

I am trying to get a handle on this man for someone.

Charles William Woodfield (sometimes Christian names other way round!)

Born 29th Sept 1897, lived in Tysoe Warks

I am told he enlisted in the Warwickshire regiment on the 6th May 1916 Pte 6189 and arrived in France Sept 1st 1916.

His medal card apparently says he belonged to both the Warks and then the MGC, particulalry the 21st battalion of 21st division. I have details of his wounding on 4th Oct 1917, which I am again assuming he was by this time with the 21st division in one of the brigade MGC companies. His MGC number was 152585. Also I believe his service record did not survived ( I do not have access to Ancestry but his granddaughter has attempted to search for it to no avail)

From a booklet he kept I have basic information that after he was wounded in Oct 17 he convalesced until Oct 18 when he returned to the front and certainly 21st MGC. Given that he returned to a MGC and not infantry that he was already part of the MGC and very possibly 21st division, assuming all that he may then have been wounded at Polygon wood in 1917.

I would like to help the granddaughter of Charles Woodfield by giving her a good a picture of his army career but I need obviously to to try and pin down his pre wounding movements, which do not appear to be clean cut from his little booklet he kept.

His brother Frederick Woodfield was killed 24th September 1916 as a member of the NZ Rifle Brigade and around this time 21st division were adjacent to the New Zealand division at Flers-Courcelette (he is buried at Caterpillar Valley Graveyard). it would be nice to think they were unconsciously within a few miles of each other at the time, but obviously I do not want to jump to any conclusions so would really like to establish his movements...if possible.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Regards

Arm

[Stebie9173]

I can't see a service record either.

However, there are a few surviving service records for close MGC numbers and they form a conistent enough pattern to suggest that Charles Woodfield followed that same path:

Charles Alfred Higgins RWR 1694/200166 & MGC 152574

2/5th Royal Warwicks

To France 18/20.11.16

Posted to 25th RWR 2.12.16

Evacuated to England 12.7.17

Posted to 158 TF Depot Birmingham

Transferred to the MGC 19.4.18

Posted to No 1 Res Bn Belton Park Grantham, 19.4.18

To France 4.6.18

Arrived at MGC BD Camiers 4.6.18

Posted to 8th Bn MGC 23.6.18

Posted to 6th Bn MGC 7.1.19

George Edward Oliver, 11768 Devons & MGC 152597

3rd Devons 13.3.18

Transferred to the MGC 19.4.18

Posted to No 1 Res Bn Belton Park Grantham, 19.4.18

To France 4.6.18

MGC BD Camiers 4.6.18

Posted to 5th Bn MGC 11.6.18

Posted to 4th Bn MGC 25.12.18

John William Pullan West Yorks 35243, DLI 43953 & MGC 152566

With 3rd DLI in early 1918

Transferred to the MGC 19.4.18

Posted to No 1 Res Bn Belton Park Grantham, 19.4.18

To France 4.6.18

Posted to MGC BD Camiers 4.6.18

Posted to 5th Battalion MGC, 11.6.18

Each of these men had recovered from wounds in 1917 and were returning to the front - which would suggest that Charles had recovered from his own wounds and served with 21st Division during 1918, rather than earlier (though he could have been in 21st Division prior to that, of course) I would suspect that he would have been fit enough to return to France before October 1918, though.

His medal card makes no reference to 21st Division - though I suspect you have other confirmation of 21st Division !

Steve.

[armourersergeant]

That I do Steve, many thanks so far.

I have this few notes from his little booklet, written by himself. I thought the wounding recovery time was a little long but this seems to map out a long recovery. I seem to recall they (the relatives) thought it was some form of head wound, though I may be miss-remembering. I don't see that the notes show any retraining before he goes out and given his 'detailed' movement notes after the wound I thought it would have mentioned that. Unless transfer leave could be a hint?

Arrived in France Sept 1st 1916

Wounded at Ypres Oct 4th 1917

Back in England Oct 12th 1917

Sick leave Nov 14th 1917

Returned to barracks Dec 10th 1917

Transfer leave April 5th 1918

Returned to camp April 18th 1918

Draft leave Oct 1st 1918

Arrived in France Oct 28th 1918

Demob June 21st 1919

Regards

Arm

[Stebie9173]

His notes would seem to back up the transfer to the MGC in April 1918, and lend credence to the rest being reliable:

Arrived in France Sept 1st 1916

Wounded at Ypres Oct 4th 1917

Back in England Oct 12th 1917

Sick leave Nov 14th 1917

(This would be hospital discharge furlough, usually a week or two. Usually followed by physiotherapy at a Command Depot, but probably no for a head wound, but the leave period seems too long, so he perhaps went for some sort of rehabilitation/convalsence?

Returned to barracks Dec 10th 1917

(Presumably posting to the T.F. Depot, or Reserve Battalion)

Transfer leave April 5th 1918

(Two weeks leave prior to transfer to the MGC?)

Returned to camp April 18th 1918

(Ties in with the transfer dates to the MGC above)

Draft leave Oct 1st 1918

Arrived in France Oct 28th 1918

As you say, he seems to have taken longer to return to France. I suppose there could have been any number of reasons for that!

Steve.

[Staffsyeoman]

Just a small point of detail - the '21st MGC' at the time would have to be 21st MG Company, as battalions did not form until early 1918. So it wouldn't be 21st Division, rather 21st Brigade in 1917 (which was then with 30th Division).

[armourersergeant]

Thanks phil,

Of course you are right, very poor attempt to abbreviate. I can not find any brigade MGC company war diaries, they seen not to exist! Only one for a few months before as you say the battalion was formed, then it has a war dairy.

However I am coming to the conclusion that this chap did not see action with 21st div until the last few weeks of the war.

Regards

Arm

[Staffsyeoman]

Arm,

There was a discussion about this I think yesterday. If you type '21st Machine Gun Company' into the NA search engine (or any other Company, come to that) - you will get no hits. It is because all the MG Company diaries are filed as 'Brigade Machine Gun Company' as a subset of the Brigade - start with the Division and drill down.

[Stebie9173]

The War Diary references for the record:

WO 95/2145 21 Battalion Machine Gun Corps 1918 Mar. - 1919 Mar.

WO 95/2145 237 Machine Gun Company 1917 July - 1918 Feb.

WO 95/2156 Brigade Machine Gun Company 1916 Feb. - 1918 Feb. {62nd Brigade}

WO 95/2158 Brigade Machine Gun Company 1916 Mar. - July {63rd Brigade}

WO 95/2165 Brigade Machine Gun Company 1916 July - 1918 Feb. {110th Brigade}

WO 95/2162 Brigade Machine Gun Company 1916 Jan. - 1918 Jan. {64th Brigade}

Steve.

[KevinBattle]

I've tried looking at it for his possible places of action BEFORE he joined the MGC, in view of your initial post regarding his whereabouts in relation to his brother Frederick who was in the New Zealand Rifles and killed on 24th September 1916.

I USED the 6,000 series Service Number for Royal Warks and most of the early 6000 and 6100 series CWGC casualties appear to have been in France by the July 1916.

For what it may be worth, this chap seems to have a close Service Number and died after September 1916when Charles William arrived in France:-

Name: McMAIN, ROBERT KIRK

Initials: R K

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Warwickshire Regiment

Unit Text: 2nd/6th Bn.

Age: 19

Date of Death: 03/10/1916

Service No: 6182

Additional information: Son of Peter and Betsy Kirk McMain, Braehead, Almondbank, Perth.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: III. A. 6.

Cemetery: LAVENTIE MILITARY CEMETERY, LA GORGUE

Most of the early 61xx numbers were in the 2nd/6th RWR and suffered heavily in mid to late July 1916.

Your chap seems to have had a charmed life in not getting posted to France with any urgency either in the RWR or MGC!!!

With regard to casualties sustained by the RWR on 4th October 1917 when he was wounded, the RWR sustained some 232 deaths that day, but throughout their Battalions, mostly the 1st/xths, not 2nd/6th or whatever.... so somehow he doesn't appear to have been with the main draft of the 61xx Service Numbers in going into the 2nd/whatevers, but 1st/whatevers.... Maybe someone with greater knowledge (that's most of you!) can find some rationale there...

In short I can't find an easy link to which Battalion he was with when wounded.

I also looked at casualties from Kineton (some 40+ listed) and this chap may be of interest as he is also in Caterpillar Valley, so may have been a childhood friend of Frederick and Charles

Name: REASON, CHARLES JOSEPH

Initials: C J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Lance Corporal

Regiment/Service: Royal Warwickshire Regiment

Unit Text: 10th Bn.

Age: 23

Date of Death: 30/07/1916

Service No: 5451

Additional information: Son of Charles and Frances Louisa Reason, of Tysoe, Kineton, Warwickshire.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: XVI. C. 29.

Cemetery: CATERPILLAR VALLEY CEMETERY, LONGUEVAL

Sorry, doesn't add much to building the story.

[armourersergeant]

I have 21st MGC Battalion as well as the few pages for 237.

However, and it will come as no surprise that even though the information re MGC Companies has been under my nose all this time I have failed to see that they are housed with the battalion war diaires and not the brigade war dairies!!! what a numpty I am. just checking your designations Steve on my website I can clearly see why they are not with the brigades...that is because they are not supposed to be!

Get them next time I am at the NA then me thinks.

So back to Charles W Woodfield, I guess we can assume with some conviction that he was only with 21st div late in 1918 and that prior to that he was with the Warks, so supposedly wounded at ypres on 4th October 1917 as part of another division

LLT records:

Phase: the Battle of Broodseinde, 4 October 1917 (again assumption that is where he was wounded)

19th (Western) Division has 10th Warks

37th Division. has 11th Bn, the Royal Warks

5th Division has 14th, 15th 16th Warks

7th Division has 2nd Warks

4th Division has 1st Warks

48th (South Midland) Division. has 1/5th, 1/6th, 1/7th, 1/8th, Warks.

None of the other divisions had any Warks in their orbat.

Oh hum.

Arm

[armourersergeant]

Kevin,

Sorry whilst I was putting my post together yours appeared, thanks for that information it may not give a clear picture but it does help to put some meat to the bone shall we say.

Many thanks

Arm