H Vinter, Motor machine Gun Section

[keithmroberts]

I have found a reference in the Shipley Times and Express of 20 August 1915 to a man of this name having joined the Motor Machine Gun Section. His address is given as Apperley Lane

I have a family at Woodhouse Grove School on Apperley Lane, where the headmaster was an Arthur Vinter in 1911. Checking back through census records, he would not appear to have had any male children whose forename begins with the initial H. However he had a brother, Herbert, born 1857 who was head of Truro College in 1911. Herbert was unmarried, so I can't see any sons there either.

Only one MIC on Ancestry for a Herbert Vinter even mentions the MMGC,

Name: Herbert A Vinter

Regiment or Corps: Army Service Corps, Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry, Machine Gun Corps

Regimental Number: T4/251931, 233607, 174978

The Herbert from Truro would have been about 56 or 57 at the outbreak of war, and seems unlikely to have moved through three units by 1915, and as a Cambridge graduate would probably have been an officer if indeed he served.

I would appreciate any help from Motor Machine Gun corps experts, or from anyone who could check the Cambridge University Roll of Honour to eliminate Herbert who is stated to be an undergraduate in the 1881 census.

keith

Keith

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Have you checked the medal roll to see if he served with the Motor Machine Gun Section as opposed to the Machine Gun Corps?

[keithmroberts]

Not yet. My next chance to visit the Archives will be at the beginning of May. I'll certainly take a look then.

I appreciate that officers had to apply for their medals, so I'll be checking for any surviving files as well. He just seems to be very old to have joined up, but on the other hand he appears as an apparently unmarried former head teacher to be the sort of chap who might have turned up with his own car early in the war. I'm not sure how likely it was that such a thing might have been acceptable.

Keith

[grantowi]

The chap at Turo Collage was a Herbert WiLLIAM Vinter

from 1861 with his sister:

VINTER, Emily Elizabeth Daughter 1856

VINTER, Herbert William Son 1857

1871:

VINTER, Emily E Daughter 1856

VINTER, Herbert W Son 1857

1881:

VINTER, Elizabeth E Daughter Single 1856 Keeping House - Name change

VINTER, Herbert W Son Single 1857 Undergraduate

1891:

VENTER, Herbert W Head Single 1857 Scholastic South Africa British Subject - not sure what happen here

VINTER, Emily E Sister Single 1856 Living On Her Own Means

1901:

VINTER, Herbert Head Single 1857 Head Master

VINTER, Emily Sister Single 1856 Living On Own Means

1911:

VINTER, Emily Boarder Single 1856

VINTER, Herbert Boarder Single 1857 Head Master

Hth

Grant

[per ardua per mare per terram]

... He just seems ... to be the sort of chap who might have turned up with his own car early in the war. I'm not sure how likely it was that such a thing might have been acceptable...

It was acceptable, but many were vetted by the RAC. Don't confine your search to the Army; many were taken up by the Navy especially the RNAS who operated the first British armoured cars during the war. They usually were given temporary commissions in the Royal Marines. There is a paper index to all RM officers to 1970 in the microfilm reading room at Kew.

Herbert A Vinter was a territorial who was renumbered in the 1917 renumbering. Whist with the ASC he was a driver of horses.

[nealw66]

I would appreciate any help from Motor Machine Gun corps experts, or from anyone who could check the Cambridge University Roll of Honour to eliminate Herbert who is stated to be an undergraduate in the 1881 census.

keith

Keith

Keith,

Only one Vinter on the Cambridge Uni Roll - and he was PJ.

Regards,

Neal

[grantowi]

Could this be the ASC chap in 1911:

VINTER, Herbert Alfread,Head, Married, Dyers Finishers - Cotton, Born 1891 in Yorkshire, Whitecote Bramley

Grant

[keithmroberts]

Thank you all. I agree that the ASC chap was probably the Herbert Alfread. I will follow up the other suggestions in May when I make it to Kew. I'll also be fitting in a couple of days in Bradford during April if possible and will check some other sources at the local studies library. Its possible that the Bradford Roll of Honour might have something, and I'll try my luck with the 1918 electoral roll if they have that section. Its a way out of town though, so I'm not sure that they will have the relevant parts.

Keith

[keithmroberts]

I am beginning to think that the newspaper got it wrong. I have now found a MIC for Captain Norman Odell Vinter, the nephew of Herbert, and the MIC records that N O Vinter was appointed to a temporary commission in the M.M.G.S. on 10 9 1915. He subsequently was appointed Captain in the RAF. I'll be at Kew in May, so I'll see if his records are accessible. There's not a lot of difference is some handwriting between a capital H and a capital N.

Keith