MFP Discharge

[Peter J]

Researching some family history and am having a little trouble reading the handwriting on in the soldier's records which itemise the disabilities resulting in his discharge from the Military Foot Police.

Cpl John Howell. had previous service with the Royal Fusiliers (attested December 1914), then seems to have transferred to the MFP.

Discharged in 1919, he was awarded a pension, but as mentioned above, the handwriting on the records is just a little too difficult for me to decipher.

In addition, John's granddaughter tells me that she has a photo of him wearing two medals, one with five clasps and the other with two (I have not yet seen this picture). The next question is, if he was awarded medals, why is it not recorded on his MIC?

Pictures below - any help with this very much appreciated.

Regards,

P.

[Bardess]

Chronic pleural thickening I think

[John Morcombe]

The two medals sound like the Queen's South Africa (five clasps) & King's South Africa (with two).

[roughdiamond]

In addition, John's granddaughter tells me that she has a photo of him wearing two medals, one with five clasps and the other with two (I have not yet seen this picture). The next question is, if he was awarded medals, why is it not recorded on his MIC?

Peter

As John says they'd probably be Queens South Africa (QSA) and Kings South Africa (KSA) medals meaning he had previous service, the medals should be mentioned on his pension details, the reason they don't appear on his MIC is that only those medals earned during WW1 would appear on his MIC.

I have my Gt Gt Uncles pension papers and the QSA and KSA are listed on his "Military History sheet" against serial No 9 "Medals, Decorations and Annuities", I'm taking it from your post that you have his pension record, so it should be there.

If you get a look at the photo, these are the 2 medals, the QSA shown has 6 clasps, the KSA 2

Sam

[Peter J]

Diane:

'Chronic Pleural Thickening' looks sopt on to me... many thanks. I wonder if the poor blighter had been gassed; he passed away in 1925.

John & Sam:

I am afraid that I do not yet have the pension records, only the service records. Thanks for the help with the QSA and KSA - any ideas what the clasps are for?

Thanks one and all.

P.

[sotonmate]

P

See this explanantion for QSA Medal and Clasps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_South_Africa_Medal

You can click on King's South Africa Medal at the bottom of that page,against the medal ribbon shown for that campaign.

Sotonmate

[Peter J]

Sotonmate,

Thanks for the link.

P.

[Peter J]

Just to conclude...

It transpires that John's previous service with the Royal Fusiliers, was during the 2nd Boer War. It appears that he was discharged around 1901, then spending time in hospital in Britain.

At the outset of WWI, he enlisted with the MFP and saw home service only. By 1919 he had been discharged due to 'Chronic Pleural Thickening' (as we have seen).

The photo mentioned by his granddaughter shows him proudly wearing the QSA & KSA (thanks again to John, Sam & Sotonmate) together with his SWB from WWI. The photo is not of good enough quality to be able to see the clasps clearly.

Thanks agin one and all,

P.

[Chris_Baker]

The QSA and KSA medal rolls exist, on microfilm, at the National Archives. They would confirm his military details and define the QSAM clasps he was entitled to. For the KSAM it can only be "1901" and "1902".

The problem is there is no index card or other central system for these medals. You have to know the regiment he served with. That, I imagine, might be tricky in this case. Does his Great War service record (particularly the Attestation Form) give any clues?

[SteveE]

The problem is there is no index card or other central system for these medals. You have to know the regiment he served with. That, I imagine, might be tricky in this case. Does his Great War service record (particularly the Attestation Form) give any clues?

Regiment would be the Royal Fusiliers going by Peter's post#8, Microfilm references would be WO100/171 for the QSA and WO100/321 for the KSA.

It transpires that John's previous service with the Royal Fusiliers, was during the 2nd Boer War. It appears that he was discharged around 1901, then spending time in hospital in Britain.

If the photo does show the KSA with two clasps then he must have been in South Africa sometime between 1st January 1902 and 31st May 1902 to qualify for the SA1902 clasp. I only mention this as it puts his discharge back to 1902 at the earliest.

Regards

Steve

[Peter J]

Could it have been at all possible for our man to have been in the UK in 1901, and then back in SA before the war ended? The reason being is that he shows up in the 1901 census at Bethnal House as a patient!

I shall try to acquire a copy of the photo for scrutiny, but it may take a little time.

Thanks all,

P.