5th btn. Essex Regiment

[Guest banjo33]

My Great Uncle was Robert Layzell (service no. 3213) was killed 15/08/1915 in Gallipoli. I believe that the regiment left for Gallipoli July 30th leaving from Liverpool on the Cunarder Aquitania and arrived about a week later.

I have Robert's death plaque plus one photoand am probably the last family member who knows of him.

Can anybody help

I would like to know the chances of finding any more of his war record, is it worth a trip to Kew

Does anyone know anymore about the actions of the 5th in the months leading up to and after his death?

Can I find the date he enlisted?

finally as I believe he never travelled far from Tolleshunt Darcy Essex before the war and has no Family left out of respect I would like to visit his grave (details are on the cwgc site) what is the best way to get out there, has any one any good advice?

Thanks in advance when I get there I will toast them all for you.

[GrandsonMichael]

Hi Banjo33,

Your man is online suddenly. At least his Medal Index Card is. The PRO is in a publishing frenzy, by the looks of it...

http://www.documentsonline.pro.gov.uk/deta...1&resultcount=4

You might try to fork out the quids and be lucky and find a little bit of info on the card.....

Can't help you any further, suppose you have read our host's info on tracking down our relatives, etc.? Top left of Forum.

Good luck,

Michael

[Guest banjo33]

Thanks very much

[Guest banjo33]

I have just download his card (waht an easy process)

Can anyone help with the following

Theatre of War (2B) Balkans what does 2B mean?

Date of entry therein 9/8/15 is this when the ship landed?

Died of wounds is this the same as killed in action?

Regards

[andyspiller]

The Operational theatres of War codes on the MICs were as follows

to 31/12/1915

1 Western Europe

2 Balkans

3 Egypt

4 Africa

5 Asia

6 Australsia

From 1/1/1916

1 Western Europe

a France & Belgium

b Italy

2 Balkans

a Greek Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria & European Turkey

b Gallipoli (Dardanelles)

3 Russia (4/5 Aug 1914 - 1/2 July 1920)

4 Egypt

a 4/5 Nov 1914 - 18/19 Mar 1916

b 18/19 Mar 1916 - 31/10 / 1 Nov 1918

5 Africa

a East Africa, Nyasaland & Northern Rhodesia

b South West Africa

c Cameroon

d Nigeria

e Togoland

6 Asia

a Hedjaz

b Mesopotamia

c Persia

d Trans Caspia

e South West Arabia

f Aden

g Frontier regions of India

h Tsingtau

7 Australsia

a New Britain

b New Ireland

c Kaiser Wilhelmland

d Admiralty Islands

e Nauru

f German Samoa

Well you did ask

Date of entry is when your man landed in that theatre of war and DOW means that he died subsequent to being wounded in action ( i.e. not the same as KIA)

Hope this helps

Andy

[Guest banjo33]

Thanks again

[crispy]

A quick look at "British Regiments at Gallipoli" by Ray Westlake, shows that the 1/5thBn (T.F.) left Plymouth aboard the "Grampion", with a battalion strength of 29 officers & 649 other ranks in command of the 1/5thBn was Lt-Colonel J.M Welch, T.D.

The book then lists in some detail the officers, and makes mention of the fact that many of the men were not more than 20 years old, a few under age aged 16 & 17,having embarked at noon on the 22nd July, the "Grampion" sailed the next day.

Calling at Malta on the 30th July the ship arrived at Alexandria on the 2nd August and sailed for Lemnos on the 6th, it arrived at Murdos Harbour the next day, the Battalion transferred to the "Hazel" on the 9th sailing after dark for Imbros.

"Hazel" arrived at 5am the next day, in his history of the Battalion, Major T. Gibbons recalls arriving at Imbros and hearing heavy firing from the Peninsular, puffs of smoke could also be seen from sheels bursting inland, after sailing at 12.30 pm they landed at "A" Beach, Sulva without casualties and concentrated a short distance inland.

The Battalion War Diary then reads, "Moved forward to reserve positions 10 pm, ordered forward to second line trenches during night (12th), advanced in single file, halting at daybreak and forming two lines. Advanced to relieved 163rd Brigade firing line 4 pm (14th), Major Gibbons records distance covered as being just over a mile, he also notes heavy shrapnel fire and snipers operating to the left"

"Relieved 1/5th Norfolks and 1/8th Hampshire in "C" Sector, line held being a fenched( I don`t know if that should be fenced, just copying as written), ditch facing Kuchuk Anafarta Ova. Casualties during the advance- 14 other ranks killed and 60 wounded, 2Lt Turner killed while out with patrol after dark."

"Captain Denton killed by sniper on 16th, Battalion records note fighting of 10th (Irish) Division on left at Kiretch Tepe Sirt and the cheering and waving helmets in the air by thr Irishmen."

The 1/5th Essex were relieved at 3 am on the 17th and withdrew to reserve positions.

There is of course a lot more that follows but thought the period leading up to and the period of your late Great Uncles death would be of interest to you, I would be happy to copy what follows if of interest to you, hope the above is of use.

David.

[Guest banjo33]

Showing my lack of knowlege but what does "1/5thBn (T.F.)" mean is it 1st and 5th territorials?

[crispy]

I feel sure some other forum member better versed than me will be able to give you a more comprehensive answer, but every bit helps.

Where the battalion concerned has T.F. as part of its title it means that it was part of the Territorial Force which although the force came into being prior to WW1, from memory I think that it was in 1908, most of the Territorial Battalions were in fact not surprisingly war time raised.

The Essex Regiment had several such battalions based at several different locations throughout the county, all probably based at Drill Halls.

You most certainly are not showing any lack of knowledge as I suspect like me others have thought the battalion numbering system a bit complicated, and confusing at times, more so when different battalions in the same regiments have very similar numbers.

Along with other regiments at the time of the war the Essex Regiment had its regular battalions, in its case the 1st & 2nd Battalions, again like other regiments its 3rd was a reserve battalion, it would be 3rd(Reserve)Battalion on documentation on the like.

Next in order were the Territorials in the case of Essex they were 1/4th, 1/5th, 1/6th, 1/7th, 1/8th,(Cyclist), as such all would have T.F. as part of their title, I think that all those were pre war formations, whilst those designated 2/4th, 2/5th, 2/6th, 2/7th, 2/8th(Cyclist), were formed early in the war, again all part of the much expanded Territorial Force, the next batch of Essex Battalions, were 3/4th, 3/5th, 3/6th & 3/8th, like the other T.F.8th Bns the 3/8th was also a Cyclist battalion.

There then followed the Kitchener Battalions, as such the Essex were very typical of the county regiments during WW1, I hope my contribution is of help, and not added to the riddle.

The unit of which you are most interested in the 1/5thBn T.F. werein effect for the sake of simplicity the 5thBn of the Essex Regiment, during WW1, pureist would probably not agree but that is the easiest way to explain the number of same.

David.

[Guest banjo33]

Thanks is there any way to tell when and where Robert Layzell joined up?

[crispy]

Depending on where you live and time to spare it may be time and money well spent going to Kew, or use the services of an established PRO researcher.

As I suspect you already know a lot of the WW1 soldiers records were destroyed by enemy action in WW2, depending on what book or news paper cutting or similar article that you read the estimate of % that survive varies a lot, for those which I have tried to obtain from the PRO I have only got about 30%, those that I have got also vary quite a lot as regards content, they would at least tell you what you want to know, and perhaps a lot more besides, hope you are successful!

David.

[Guest banjo33]

any ideas on a good established PRO researcher?

Thanks

David

[crispy]

There are several, but I will email you off forum for the man that I have used.

David.

[Matthew King]

Crispy

The book British Regiments on Gallipolli seems to contain lots of information, I was wondering if you could do a look up for me.

Ininterested in the 1/6th Essex regiment, especially a private called Frank Nye (4246) who died on the 22 August possibly from snipperfire.

Any information on Frank or the the 6th Essex would be greatfully recieved.

Thanks

Matt

[Matthew King]

Banjo33

If you want an idea of what the trip to gallipolli was like I have my Granddad's diary of the trip on this site

Diary

Matt

[crispy]

Matt.

A bit of info for you, it would seem that like the 1/5th Essex were also at St Albans, and same Brigade and Division, but entrained for Devonport on 23/7/15, the battalion commanded by Lt-Col R.F. Wall embarked on the "Southland" the following day.

On 1/8/15 they called at Malta, and arrived at Alexandria on 4/8/15, to Lemnos on 8/8/15, and Imbros the next day, landing at Suvla Bay on 11/8/15.

The battalion moved to reserve positions on 12/8/15, the following day they advanced on Kiretch Tepe Sirt with C Company leading the advance, they later had to retire due to heavy shrapnel and sniper fire, casualties amounted to 2 other ranks killed, 3 officers and 54 other ranks wounded.

Advanced and relieved 1/8th Hampshire in firing line on 14/8/15, the day afterwards moved to support line behind Jephson`s Post, Taking over that position the next day, during the move 7 other ranks were killed, with 2 officers and 19 other ranks being wounded, and 2 men posted missing.

On the 22/8/15 Lt A.C. Beeton and 5 other ranks were killed by shrapnel, as is fairly normal with war diaries none of the OR's are named, which for your interest is unfortunate, to put it mildly.

To support line-Razorback on 23/8/15, where they stayed for four days before going back to the reserve line, on 29/8/15 to Lala Baba, followed the next day by a move along the coast to Anzac, where the battalion relieved the 13th Bn, A.I.F in forward trenches-Hill60 sector on 31/8/15.

The sum total of September entry is:- 5 killed, 12 wounded & 140 sick.

Hope this is helpfull, it would seem that Frank Nye was killed by shrapnel.

David.

[Matthew King]

Thanks for the infromation Crispy, I knew a little bit but the 6th Essex didn't seem toget involved in any battles in Gallipolli so they are never mentioned in any of the books I have read about it.

Frank may well have been killed by shrapnel, the letter where my granddad tells his mum that Frank died was censored so I had to guess some of it.

Here is a photo of Frank

Matt

[crispy]

Matt.

On the off chance that you have not seen SDGW entry for Frank Thomas Nye, it shows that he enlisted at West Ham & resident, Forest Gate, number 4246 kia Gallipoli, when I checked CWGC entry, I wondered if at the age of 20 he still lived at home with his parents in Forest Gate.

David.

[Matthew King]

My Grandfather had his Roll of Honour entry from the Statford Express

Private Frank Nye, of the 6th Essex, was killed at the Dardanellies on August 22nd. As an old Whitehall Place schoolboy, he was a general favourite with all; quiet, yet persevering, he was always a boy who could be relied upon in sport as well as work. He was one of the 1908 football team, which went through the whole season without a defeat. Now the whole of that team are playing a nobler game for their King and country. Joining last winter, Nye received his training at Stamford and Norwich, and at the beginning of August he left for the Dardanellies. He stay there was destined to be short, for in the midst of a sharp attack he fell mortally wounded. Our sympathies go out to his many friends and relatives at Forrest Gate.

[crispy]

Matt.

Thank you for your last post, it is nice when someone adds similar to what you have added after a look up or when having sent information, more so if it is to do with an individual serviceman.

David.