What documents should I ask for? Advice please.

[Huw Davies]

Any advice would be gratefully accepted.

Next week I'm going to Kew in the hope that I can finally discover more about the military career of Pte. Dan Lewis 3446, 1st Batt.Welsh Guards, and more importantly, the circumstances of his death on the 2nd. Nov 1918.

Now I know of the existence of the WG War Diaries (WO95/1224), and I already have his Medal Record, but are there any other documents that might help? If anyone can think of anything that might help please let me know. Also, I've never been to Kew before, is there anything I should know or do before I get there that would facilitate the brief time I have?

Many thanks,

Huw Davies

[larney]

Hi Huw,

Here is an extract for the day from the History of the Welsh Guards by Dudley Ward-

On November 2nd the battalion marched to Vertain. The last stage of the battle had started, and on the line of the Fourth, Third and First Armies opened with an attack by the XVII Corps, of the Third Army, and the XXII and Canadian Corps, of the First Army, at 5.15 on November Ist . After two days' fighting Valenciennes was captured and a more general advance could be made. A big attack was launched on November 4th by the Fourth, Third and First Armies on a thirty-mile front. The battalion left Vertain on November 3rd.

" November 2nd. — In view of the move which was to take place ' after dinners,' the battalion did nothing this morning beyond get ready. At 12 o'clock there was a conference at brigade, and the Brigadier explained in the loosest way the plans, for there are two. In the first plan the 1st and 2nd Brigades attack to a depth of about three miles, and we go through them and carry on a further three or four miles. The second plan is for the 1st and 2nd Brigades to go for seven miles, and we go on from there — very ambitious. Anyway, we were given orders to move forward at 5 p.m. to Escarmain. It seems strange to come out of the line, as we did ten days ago, to a place which was only a short way behind, and within that short space of time find yourself so far from the battle front that you can march eight miles forward and still be about five miles away from the front line.

"We started then at 5 p.m. and proceeded in pitch dark. The stillness of the night was broken by the sound of music — brass bands and bugle bands — and we soon realised we were not the only people marching forward, but that there were troops on parallel roads right and left of us. It is more cheering than the approach to the Somme battle in 1916. I never thought we should march forward with bands !

After two and a half hours of marching we reached a village (Vertain) three miles from our destination, and there found old Courtney in a state of physical and mental collapse. He had been arranging billets all day, and all forward villages were so packed with troops that there was no room for us. But tents had been pitched quite close to where we were. Switching a battalion off the line of march at night when it is marching with 100 yards' interval between platoons, and in the midst of countless other traffic, is dangerous work. In the attempt the cookers and two limbers evaded us and went wrong — they turned up, however, at 10.30 p.m.

"We found the tents pitched on muddy ground, but, thank goodness, a large supply of unthreshed wheat !

“We all turned in by eleven.

No mention of any men KIA that day, although Daniel is listed as such.

SteveJ.

[Huw Davies]

Hi Huw,

Here is an extract for the day from the History of the Welsh Guards by Dudley Ward-

On November 2nd the battalion marched to Vertain. The last stage of the battle had started, and on the line of the Fourth, Third and First Armies opened with an attack by the XVII Corps, of the Third Army, and the XXII and Canadian Corps, of the First Army, at 5.15 on November Ist . After two days' fighting Valenciennes was captured and a more general advance could be made. A big attack was launched on November 4th by the Fourth, Third and First Armies on a thirty-mile front. The battalion left Vertain on November 3rd.

" November 2nd. — In view of the move which was to take place ' after dinners,' the battalion did nothing this morning beyond get ready. At 12 o'clock there was a conference at brigade, and the Brigadier explained in the loosest way the plans, for there are two. In the first plan the 1st and 2nd Brigades attack to a depth of about three miles, and we go through them and carry on a further three or four miles. The second plan is for the 1st and 2nd Brigades to go for seven miles, and we go on from there — very ambitious. Anyway, we were given orders to move forward at 5 p.m. to Escarmain. It seems strange to come out of the line, as we did ten days ago, to a place which was only a short way behind, and within that short space of time find yourself so far from the battle front that you can march eight miles forward and still be about five miles away from the front line.

"We started then at 5 p.m. and proceeded in pitch dark. The stillness of the night was broken by the sound of music — brass bands and bugle bands — and we soon realised we were not the only people marching forward, but that there were troops on parallel roads right and left of us. It is more cheering than the approach to the Somme battle in 1916. I never thought we should march forward with bands !

After two and a half hours of marching we reached a village (Vertain) three miles from our destination, and there found old Courtney in a state of physical and mental collapse. He had been arranging billets all day, and all forward villages were so packed with troops that there was no room for us. But tents had been pitched quite close to where we were. Switching a battalion off the line of march at night when it is marching with 100 yards' interval between platoons, and in the midst of countless other traffic, is dangerous work. In the attempt the cookers and two limbers evaded us and went wrong — they turned up, however, at 10.30 p.m.

"We found the tents pitched on muddy ground, but, thank goodness, a large supply of unthreshed wheat !

“We all turned in by eleven.

No mention of any men KIA that day, although Daniel is listed as such.

SteveJ.

Many thanks Steve. This is the reason why I'm going to Kew, in the hope that the War Diaries (and any other documents) might give more information than the HoWG. According to the HoWG no contact was made with the enemy that day, they only marched, and were it seems, in high spirits.

It has been suggested that Dan had deserted and shot at dawn, but his Medal Records show that he retained all his medals and there's no mention of him on the "Shot at Dawn" site. Another suggestion is that he was seconded to another unit which did see action that day.

I have twice contact the Welsh Guards archive at Birdcage Walk, but as yet I've recieved no reply.

All the best,

Huw

[larney]

I think that all of the Welsh Guards service papers survived the Blitz and are kept at Birdcage. (I'm sure that's what a mate of mine told me, who is a very keen Welsh Guards Historian, but I'm not 100% sure on that Huw.)

Cheers,

SteveJ.

[roughdiamond]

Huw

You won't get his service records at Kew, that's the bad news, the good news is that his Service records will have survived and will be held at the Guards Museum, Birdcage walk, London as Stevej said.

Below is the contact link for the Museum, for a small fee they will send you copies of his Service records which should only be damaged by time (if at all) unlike the "Burnt records" held on Ancestry.

http://www.theguardsmuseum.com/family.htm

All the best

Sam

[sotonmate]

Huw

This from the LLT on Guards' records:

http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/records.htm

For Guards halfway down the page.

Sotonmate

[Ice Tiger]

.....According to the HoWG no contact was made with the enemy that day, they only marched.....

Huw

Could it be that he was injured day(s) before he died hence no casualties listed for that day in the diary.

What cause of death is given on SDGW, does it say KIA?

As you alreday have his MIC, give Kew a miss & concentrate your efforts on Birdcage Walk; they should be able to answer more of your questions.

Andy

[roughdiamond]

It has been suggested that Dan had deserted and shot at dawn, but his Medal Records show that he retained all his medals and there's no mention of him on the "Shot at Dawn" site.

I have twice contact the Welsh Guards archive at Birdcage Walk, but as yet I've recieved no reply.

All the best,

Huw

Huw

Firstly only 4 Welsh Guards were sentenced to death and none were executed, have you checked SDGW? if he died of wounds or disease it'd be noted there.

Secondly, it took nearly 2 months for the records of my Gt Uncle to come through from the Scots Guards, there is a number on the contact page, give them a phone and ask if they have your request.

Sam

[asanewt]

Hello Huw

Where is Dan's home, have you tried local News around that time?

Regards Jules

[Verrico2009]

CWGC has him as being from Henllan, Jules

Name: LEWIS, DANIEL

Initials: D

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Welsh Guards

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Age: 37

Date of Death: 02/11/1918

Service No: 3446

Additional information: Son of Joshua and Ann Lewis, of Parke, Henllan, Cardiganshire.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: II. B. 4.

Cemetery: POIX-DU-NORD COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION

[Huw Davies]

CWGC has him as being from Henllan, Jules

Name: LEWIS, DANIEL

Initials: D

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Welsh Guards

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Age: 37

Date of Death: 02/11/1918

Service No: 3446

Additional information: Son of Joshua and Ann Lewis, of Parke, Henllan, Cardiganshire.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: II. B. 4.

Cemetery: POIX-DU-NORD COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION

Jules,

Many thanks for all the trouble you've gone to. I didn't have this record.

Huw

[Verrico2009]

Slightly more info from SDGW, Huw:-

Name: Dan Lewis

Birth Place: Llanllanfair

Residence: Aberystwyth, Card.

Death Date: 2 Nov 1918

Rank: Private

Regiment: Welsh Guards

Battalion: 1st Battalion.

Number: 3446

Type of Casualty: Killed in action

Theatre of War: France & Flanders

Louise

[Huw Davies]

Slightly more info from SDGW, Huw:-

Name: Dan Lewis

Birth Place: Llanllanfair

Residence: Aberystwyth, Card.

Death Date: 2 Nov 1918

Rank: Private

Regiment: Welsh Guards

Battalion: 1st Battalion.

Number: 3446

Type of Casualty: Killed in action

Theatre of War: France & Flanders

Louise

Many thanks Louise!

Huw

[Kevin O'Marah]

Huw, try this link book available on line, I've saved It onto PC.

http://www.archive.org/stream/historyofwel...age/n5/mode/2up

Hwyl

Kevin