Army Order from Fourth Army - November 1918

[Stebie9173]

I was given a (printout) copy of the attached Army Order whilst on duty on the WFA Stand at WDYTYA Live last weekend. It covers the Immediate Awards of Military medals to the soldiers of 1st Division (all from 2nd Brigade, except the Gloucestershire Regiment man, as far as I can see), and seems to cover awards from October 1918 to 4 November 1918 that appeared in the London Gazette of 23-7-1919.

There are some notable omissions from the list that appeared in the Gazette issue - e.g. all the 2nd K.R.R.C. ones + 409th Field Company's 16 MMs (and two bars) for the crossing of the Sambre Canal on 4-11-1918.

Has anyone seen one of these before, and if so what exactly is it?!

Steve.

[MBrockway]

Steve,

Even more bizarrely the only KRRC man who is on the list, Rfn E. Sheard, was in 2nd Battalion and appears in the Gazette with the rest of the missing KRRC men.

Not sure what to make of it TBH.

Cheers,

Mark

[27thBN]

I believe it is the official putting together in one place the awards for the 4th army for that previous month that then go and be put in the LG

I have similar one for the next month with the individual certificate as well to a Captain given to him on the award of his MC as Attached not sure why saved in B/W but is in colour

MC

[27thBN]

Here is the second certificate as underlined in the above certificate dated the same to Captain E R Venables MC RFA also in B/W but again is in colour did not reduce it properly saved in black and white

Cheers MC

[Stebie9173]

Thanks MC,

I've got another e-mail today from the relative who also has a second form that has identical printing on it to yours, MC. Presumably the list was an "extract" of the list of men awarded the Medals in the same Army Order, but did not necessarily attempt to include them all....

Steve.

[27thBN]

Yes Steve would seem to be very much the case as so many awards made especially at the end of the war that they would have to be put on to a list when they came to hand .I also noticed that all of my men on my order are the London regiment with just a couple of exceptions so looks like it was put together by Division/Bridage level to have all from the one unit .The Certificate is numbered 325 at bottom and date is 21st December .So the 325th page of awards for the war that would add up about right for the 4th Army alone.

MC

[NFLDREGT]

Hi

Where did you find the info for the 16 MM's to the 409th field company?

I have one of those 4TH ARMY certificates and a MM for a member of the 409TH but can't find any detail for why awarded but believe it is for Nov 4th canal crossing.

Any info greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Don

[Stebie9173]

I think the figues came from "The Sapper VCs" (which I can't lay my hands on at the moment). Here are the M.M.s awarded, all in the London Gazette of 23rd July 1919:

ROYAL ENGINEERS.

1. 412093 2nd Cpl. (A./Cpl.) Chapman, W., 409th Fd. Coy. (Airdrie).
   
2. 412073 Spr. Anderson, S., 409th Fd. Coy. (Airdrie).
   
3. 412703 Spr. Beattie, J., 409th Fd. Coy. (Cryston).
   
4. 412845 Spr. (A./L./C.) Campbell, J., 409th Fd. Coy. (Govan).
   
5. 412110 Spr. Frame, J., 409th Fd. Coy. (Airdrie).
   
6. 412632 Spr. (A./L./C.) Gibson, G., 409th Fd. Coy.(Airdrie).
   
7. 412494 Spr. Gilmour, J., 409th Fd. Coy. (Airdrie).
   
8. 412334 Spr. (A./L./C.) Graham, J. R., 409th Fd. Coy. (Airdrie).
   
9. 402067 Spr. (A./L./C.) Kay, J., 409th Fd. Coy.(Scotstown).
   
10. 412564 Spr. Russell, R., 409th Fd. Coy.(Hamilton).
    
11. 412238 Spr. Scott, J., 409th Fd. Coy. (Motherwell).
    
12. 412181 Spr. (A./2nd Cpl.) Stevens, G., 409th Fd. Coy. (Rutherglen).
    
13. 412176 Spr. (A./L./C.) Wells, W., 409th Fd. Coy. (Motherwell).
    
14. 412092 Spr. (A./Cpl.) White, J., 409th Fd. Coy.(Motherwell).
    
15. 412122 Dvr. (L./C.) Farquharson, C., 409th Fd. Coy. (Caldercruix).
    
16. 412142 Dvr. Hogg, J., 409th Fd. Coy. (Cambusiang).
    

and the two Bars:

1. 412079 Cpl. R. McLachlan, M.M., 409th Fd. Coy., R.E. (Coatbridge).

(M.M. gazetted 12th June, 1918.)

2. 412069 Cpl. H. Stevenson, M.M., 409th Fd. Coy., B.E. (Cottridge).

(M.M. gazetted 13th September, 1918.)

Gazette issue:

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/31469/supplements/9339

Start of R.E. awards:

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/31469/supplements/9358