Pte Williams, Welsh Regiment, can we identify him?

[high wood]

This large photograph taken in 1918/19 has been removed from an old frame some time ago. I have rescued it and I wonder if forum members can help to identify the soldier. There are a few clues; the cap badge is indistinct but appears to be the Prince of Wales's feathers so is probably that of the Welsh Regiment. The soldier has three overseas chevrons on his right sleeve and two wound stripes on his left sleeve.

Most important of all for the purpose of identifying him is the name and address and other notes on the back of the photograph. These read: Williams. 42 Pleasant Road, Pentre, Ystrad. Frame 3" with ornament 25/-.

My gazeteer lists many towns and villages in Wales called Pentre. (Pentref is apparently the Welsh for village). There are places called Pentre in Denbigh, Flint (Mold urban district), Glamorgan (Swansea area), Montgomery (in Llanfyllin rural district) and Montgomery (in Newton Llanidloes district), amongst others.

Street map shows a Pleasant Street in Pentre, Mid Glamorgan, CF41 so I guess that we are looking at the Swansea area. Is this the right recruiting area for the Welsh Regiment?

Does anyone know if an Absent Voter list for this area exists?

[high wood]

Close up of cap badge.

[max7474]

That is indeed the right South Wales area for a Welsh Regt Bn.

[Michelle Young]

Looks more like a fusilier badge to my rheumy old eyes...............

Michelle

[grantowi]

The 1911 census shows two Pleasant Road's in Glamorganshire, one in Rhondda (which is also Ystrad) and comes under Ponypridd, the other is in Penderry and comes under Swansea.

The Rhondda one has 16 houses, but no WILLIAMS

The Penderry one has 4 houses with I WILLIAMS family

I dont thinks this is the right family, Charles WILLIAMS, born in 1874 (aged 37 in 1911) in Loughor, Glamorgan, empolyed as a Tin Millman Furnaceman, married for 5 years, his eldest child born in 1909

Grant

[high wood]

Grant,

thank you for taking the trouble to look at the census for me. I am at a loss as how to take this forward as there seem to be rather a lot of soldiers called Williams in the Welsh Regiment.

Simon.

[grantowi]

The South Wales Borderers also recruited locally.

One of mine from Ton Pentre (next village up the valley) joined them.

Could the badge be the Gloucestershire Regiment?

There is a Trevor Phillips WILLIAMS, Pvt 38565, Glouc, died on 12 June 1918. Previously 46152, SWB, born in Ton Pentre on SDGW

Grant

[Michelle Young]

Certainly doesn't look like SWB or Glosters to me, I still say a fusilier..............

Michelle

[high wood]

It certainly doesn't look like the badge of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers as the plumes are too big in the picture and the grenade would appear a lot smaller. Equally, the shoulder title would be smaller and just have the letters RWF. The soldier in the photo has a curved title which appears to say Welsh.

[larney]

The badges are definitely Welsh Regiment.

Ancestry has the papers of a David John Williams, of 25, Pleasant Street, Pentre, (Ystrad is in the Rhondda) who served in the Welsh Guards, the son of Alfred Williams. (if this helps at all?). The Absent Voter list is the best option though, but it's the wrong part of Wales for me I'm afraid!

SteveJ.

[Hywyn]

Wrong end of Wales for me too I'm afraid. Apart from Absent voters then local newspapers are the next best bet. Don't know how far this is from Bernard Lewis area of interest. May be worth dropping him a PM if he doesn't spot the thread.

Hywyn

[Bernard_Lewis]

Sorry chaps but I can't help on this. Can't find a match on my website though I don't have a full list of men who served...

Bernard

[BottsGreys]

Perhaps the info. on the reverse (Williams, etc.) refers to the person doing the framing.

Chris

[grantowi]

The chap that SteveJ found could be either :

WILLIAMS, Alfred Head Married Coal Miner Hewer born 1866 in Rosemarket Pem

WILLIAMS, David John Son Coal Miner Hewer born 1879 Pentre Rhondda Glam

or

WILLIAMS, Alfred Head Married Colliery Ripper Below born 1862 in Carmarthenshire Carmarthen

WILLIAMS, David John Son born 1899 in Glamorgan Maesteg

Both in Pentre in 1911

Grant

[larney]

The chap that SteveJ found could be either :

WILLIAMS, Alfred Head Married Coal Miner Hewer born 1866 in Rosemarket Pem

WILLIAMS, David John Son Coal Miner Hewer born 1879 Pentre Rhondda Glam

or

WILLIAMS, Alfred Head Married Colliery Ripper Below born 1862 in Carmarthenshire Carmarthen

WILLIAMS, David John Son born 1899 in Glamorgan Maesteg

Both in Pentre in 1911

Grant

It's the man born in 1899 Grant. He was a Collier like his father. It's interesting to note the Carmarthenshire connection- I didn't look at that!

SteveJ.

[grantowi]

If he is the Chap, then here's Mother :

WILLIAMS, Susanah Wife born 1863 in Glamorgan Maesteg

Living at 46, Treharne St, Pentre, Rhondda, Glamorgan - about 50 yards from 42 Pleasant Road

Parents have been married for 13 years, so there are properly some siblings somewhere.

Grant

[high wood]

Perhaps the info. on the reverse (Williams, etc.) refers to the person doing the framing.

I think that this is unlikely as the family would either collect the picture from the photograher or he would offer a picture framing service. I have rescued many old photographs like this one over the years and they seem to have instructions to the framer on the back along with the name and address of the person who wants the framing done. This person is, for obvious reasons, not always the person in the photograph. They are usually a close relative or family member.

The other thing to note about this photograph is that it was taken in 1918 at the earliest and we are looking at the 1911 census for a match. It is possible that the family had moved from their 1911 address to 42 Pleasant Street by 1918.

A final point to remember is that many soldiers were war weary by the time the war was over and the last thing that they wanted was a daily reminder in the form of a large photograph of themselves over the mantlepiece. It is often the case that when a working class family spent 25/- on having a photograph enlarged and framed it was because they wanted to remember a loved one who hadn't returned. There may have been a significant reason why this particular picture was enlarged and framed.

[high wood]

It's the man born in 1899 Grant. He was a Collier like his father.

This man is certainly the most likely of the two candidates as the other chap would be nearly 40 in 1918.