Royal Dublin Fusiliers in Palestine

[corisande]

I am at a loss to see what happened to the Royal Dublin Fusiliers sent to Palestine

6th and 7th Battalions Royal Dublin Fusiliers left Salonica for Egypt

Sept 1917 On the 9th September 1917, the Dublin Fusiliers left Salonika bound for Alexandria. They arrived via Egypt in Ismalia on 12 September. What was left of the Irish Division went to Palestine to assist General Allenby remove the Turks from the Holy Land. It joined General Chetwode's XX Corps and fought in the Third Battle of Gaza. The Division was later ‘Indianised’ with Indian regiments of the British Army. The campaign was a much more successful one than the previous two campaigns that the Regiment had experienced and the Dublins took part in the Third Battle of Gaza ( 27th October - 7th November ). The Dublins also took part in the capture of Jerusalem and in its subsequent defence from Ottoman counter-attack.

And they left Egypt 8 months later

23 May 1918, the 6th and 7th Dublins left Alexandria on board the P & O ship Kaiser-I-Hind bound for Marseilles in France and disbandment. They embarked at Alexandria arriving Marseilles on 2. June 1918. Their men, many of whom carried the Malaria bug, were distributed amongst the 1st and 2nd Dublins on the Western Front.

My notes on the RDF in Palestine are here That page boils down to these mentions

October 1917 was spent training after a redress, before entering the Sinai and Palestine Campaign.

28 Oct -7 Nov 1917 3rd Battle of Gaza with 29th Infantry Brigade

November 1917 After the Battle of Gaza and the Turkish withdrawal early November, the 10th Division was refitted and returned to the line at the end of November.

December 1917

1 December Two companies, one of the Royal Irish Regiment and one of the 7th Dublin Fusiliers, arrived at 10 p.m. on the 1st of December to relieve the men at Tahta

It encountered considerable sniper fire on the way to the capture of Jerusalem, which was entered unopposed on 9. December. With relatively low losses the Division had taken what was asked of it. After so many defeats since Gallipoli, they at last tasted victory.

8 December 1917 Egypt. A reference to a RDF man being posted to No.2 Filters Kantara (W.bank Suez Canal)

March 1918 Fighting flared up again in March which required an advance towards Nablus. This enemy engagement was to be the last action in Palestine.

March 9th. - After a winter spent in holding the positions gained, operations commenced on a front of 15,000 yards, with 31st and 30th Brigades forming the right column of attack, and 29th Brigade the left column.

March 10th - Right attack. — 5th Royal Irish Fusiliers, supported by two companies 5th Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, captured the strong defences south of Jiljilia, and drove the enemy in disorder tlirough the village on to the slopes beyond. A small party, commanded by a German officer, held out to the last, when they were overwhelmed by a bayonet charge. 5th Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers captured Kh. Aliuta against opposition ; while 1st Royal Irish Regiment and 6th Royal Dublin Fusiliers captured the ridge west of Jiljilia in face of strong resistance.

May 1918 Heavy losses encountered on the Western Front after the great German March offensive, resulted in the transfer of 60,000 men from Palestine to France, including ten battalions of the 10th Division.

7 May 1918 29th Infantry Brigade arrive Kantara from the lines.

Basically I can find little mention of them during their period in Egypt and Palestine.

Oddly I cannot find many war graves. I can only find about 10 RDF men buried in the area. I must be missing something here. The March 10 attack should have had many casualties

Can anyone shed any more light on what happened to the RDF during this period. I have a copy of "The Advance of the Egyptian Expeditionary Force" so can follow any thoughts that you can give

[michaeldr]

Oddly I cannot find many war graves. I can only find about 10 RDF men buried in the area. I must be missing something here. The March 10 attack should have had many casualties

There is 1 Dub on the Jerusalem Memorial and 9 in the Jerusalem War Cemetery

however you may have overlooked the three in Ramleh War Cemetery

BANE T 29071 6TH BN 16/01/1918 ROYAL DUBLIN FUSILIERS

VEANEY AL 24394 7TH BN 20/12/1917 ROYAL DUBLIN FUSILIERS

WYNNE E 13446 6TH BN 10/12/1917 ROYAL DUBLIN FUSILIERS

The Official History gives even less away than The Advance.... with only one mention in the index; this refers to the 27th Dec 1917 when "The 7/R. Dublin Fusiliers from 30th Brigade was concentrated in reserve at the junction of the Wadis Sad and Sunt; the remainder of the 30th Brigade in the valley east of Suffa."

The impression one gets from all this silence is that here, the Dubs were always the bridesmaid and never the bride,

often/usually (?) being kept in reserve, as their light casualties would seem to infer.

regards

Michael

[corisande]

The impression one gets from all this silence is that here, the Dubs were always the bridesmaid and never the bride,

often/usually (?) being kept in reserve, as their light casualties would seem to infer.

Thanks for that input. That seems to be the conclusion, but it was not usual for a battalion to always be in reserve! And this snippet

March 10th - Right attack. — 5th Royal Irish Fusiliers, supported by two companies 5th Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, captured the strong defences south of Jiljilia, and drove the enemy in disorder thorough the village on to the slopes beyond. A small party, commanded by a German officer, held out to the last, when they were overwhelmed by a bayonet charge. 5th Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers captured Kh. Aliuta against opposition ; while 1st Royal Irish Regiment and 6th Royal Dublin Fusiliers captured the ridge west of Jiljilia in face of strong resistance.

Implies if there was strong resistance, there would have been heavy casualties. Which was why I thought I might have been missing some of the deaths.

The battalion seem proud of entering Jerusalem, but nobody appears to have recorded anything.

Much of the official history is at Division or Brigade level, and does not lift the veil on battalion level.

The War Diaries should offer more (but are not online) ..so I will have to wait to read them, unless anyone here has them.

[michaeldr]

The Advance… was published in 1919 and it was not always the final word on an action, while the 1930 OH must be expected to be more reliable.

This is how it tells this story

"Though the Right Attack of the 10th Division had captured the objectives set to it for the day, it was decided that it should occupy during the night two hills on the right bank of the Wadi el Jib, south and south-west of the village of Jiljliya, as they dominated the position it had reached on the left bank. Detachments of the 5/R. Irish Fusiliers of the 31st Brigade and the 1/R. Irish of the 30th Brigade made the attempt. They succeeded in crossing the wadi, after a decent in which they had to jump or lower each other from one terrace to another in the darkness. The northern bank proved even steeper, some of the terraces being twenty feet apart with sheer walls of rock dividing them. In such cases the men could only grope till they came on clefts which they might scramble up in single file. For all their efforts dawn found them on the lower slopes of the hills. In the morning the attempt was resumed, under cover of a bombardment. The 5/R. Irish Fusiliers, supported by two companies of the 5/R. Inniskillings, captured the hill south of Jiljliya, but the men of the 1/R. Irish were held up by machine-gun fire and bombs dropped on their heads from the ledges above, and suffered over a hundred casualties."

If the Dubs were in fact fighting alongside the 1/R. Irish then would they not also have suffered heavy casualties here?

The War Diaries should offer more (but are not online) ..so I will have to wait to read them, unless anyone here has them.

I think that examination of the War Diaries is a must here if you are to get to the bottom of this question

Good luck

Michael

[corisande]

I think that examination of the War Diaries is a must here if you are to get to the bottom of this question

Thanks for your input. That seems to be the only answer unless someone with knowledge stumbles on this thread

I have followed the RDF through Gallipoli and Salonica, and one can see what they were doing and when. What has surprised me about Palestine is how little is written, It may be that I am Googling the wrong things, but darned if I can extract much information on individual battles or events. For example Jiljilya, Jiljliya and other variants get nothing at all about the battle

Are there any other books I should look at for details of the campaign?

[michaeldr]

If the Dubs were in fact fighting alongside the 1/R. Irish then would they not also have suffered heavy casualties here?

The War Diaries should offer more (but are not online) ..so I will have to wait to read them, unless anyone here has them.

I think that examination of the War Diaries is a must here if you are to get to the bottom of this question

They may not have made it into the OH, however the Dubs do get a mention from Tom Johnstone in his Orange Green and Khaki [Gill & Macmillan Ltd., 1992]; see page 335

"Col Graham, receiving reports from returning wounded of the check to his two leading companies, gathered whatever men he could and advanced to their support. Communications with 30 Brigade headquarters was established and Brig Greer ordered Graham to reorganise and wait. Greer ordered a company of 6th Dublins to reinforce the Royal Irish and arranged an attack for 1530 which would include artillery and machine-gun support. At 1530, Graham with 125 men assisted by 180 men from 6th Dublins, attacked under cover of artillery and machine-gun fire. The climb of the steep northern slopes of the Jib was stiff and the summit was not reached until 1715. Graham's forces pressed home the attack and as they did so, the Turks rose and fled.

The action, although severe, was typical of the fighting. The Royal Irish suffered three officers and twenty-two men killed and five officers and eighty-three men wounded."

Edited 5 March , 2010 by michaeldr

[corisande]

Thanks. I ordered a copy of Orange, Green & Khaki but it never make it to Spain, so don't have it :-(

Greer ordered a company of 6th Dublins to reinforce the Royal Irish and arranged an attack for 1530 which would include artillery and machine-gun support. At 1530, Graham with 125 men assisted by 180 men from 6th Dublins, attacked under cover of artillery and machine-gun fire

Leaves me confused again. If the Royal Irish suffered heavy casualties, you would have thought that 180 RDF would have had heavy casualties in that attack. Or at least one dead,but there appears to be nothing on CWGC

I thought that I might have missed a memorial somewhere along the line, but you are coming up with the same sort of low casualties that I found

[michaeldr]

It looks like the 1st R Irish suffered most (if not all of their casualties) in the earlier phase when they were climbing up the terraces, being fired upon and bombed from above. Greer's artillery and machine-gun cover must also have counted for much here and kept down the casualties during this late stage of the fighting

[michaeldr]

Though the Right Attack of the 10th Division had captured the objectives set to it for the day, it was decided that it should occupy during the night two hills on the right bank of the Wadi el Jib, south and south-west of the village of Jiljliya, as they dominated the position it had reached on the left bank

In a foot-note at this point, the OH draws attention to the maps. The two hills which were fought over in this action are shown on the first map by the two red squares (the detachments) "on their lower slopes on the morning of the 10th March"

The OH foot-note then goes on to refer to a later map [one illustrating the action in September 1918] which not only shows these two hills but also the steepness of the terrain. By September 1918 the two had been named Clonmell Hill and Richill. Their spot heights are given in feet.

If I was you I would keep trying for the Diaries for the full story here

Once again, Good Luck

Michael

[corisande]

Thanks for the extra map, it gives a much better view of the terrain.

Certainly the Royal Irish seem to have been commemorated by Sept with "Clonmel Hill" (doubt if it is still called that today!)