MichelleH Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 Hi I have found this photograph in a family collection and have no idea who or what he is? Any one got any clues? Thank you very much, M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjab612 Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 For starters. He was a Lieutenant in the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. The photographer in Lytham doesn't give much of a dating clue as they were operating from 1889 to 1939 Not sure what the collar badges are, no doubt one of the forum's experts will advise. Very interested in tracking him down though as he could be one of the men I have been researching. No further clues on the back? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichelleH Posted 14 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2010 nothing on the back at all, and I have no idea at all why he would have been in my Great Aunts photo collection. It is in a frame, unlike the majority of the photos I had from her, so that suggests it may have been significant to her or her husband. I would be interested to hear of anything else you find out. Mich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjab612 Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 Can you give us some family surnames for your Gt Aunt & husband? We might then be able to narrow it don a bit. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 It's a beautiful photo of a Lieutenant of the 12th Bn, Loyal North Lancashire Regt(Pioneers) which was formed at Lytham. The extra collar badges below the regimental collar badges are crossed pick and rifle, which indicate an Infantry Pioneer Battalion. You'll find more about them on the Long, Long Trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichelleH Posted 14 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2010 Jane Smith was my great aunt and she was married to a John Sear. They lived in Hertfordshire. I really don't know of any family connection to Lytham, especially on the Smith side. I know nothing about the Sear's. I suppose it could be a family friend, aquaintance. Mich ps in her sisters husbands part of the family there were Manning's and Openshaw's ansd Banks's that lived around the Bolton area in Lancashire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 Michelle, It looks like 2/5th Battalion. This was a pioneer Battalion as indicated by the badges on the lower part of the lapels. Could you give us a close-up of the collar badges. It looks like he has a 'T' under the collar badge but it is a little difficult to make out. As Graham says its a lovely photo. Kind regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 Tocemma, I originally thought 2/5th Bn, but changed my mind considering it was converted while overseas in February 1918. However you could be right and there may be the small 'T's below the regimental collar badges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 IF one were to take a great leap of faith and assume it was at least a Lieutenant of the 2nd/5th The Loyal North Lancs Regt; then there are 3 CWGC casualties recorded. Name: BRYANS, JOHN Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lieutenant Regiment/Service: The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment Unit Text: 2nd/5th Bn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 28/10/1917 Additional information: Son of John and Florence Bryans, of 4514, Asuncion, Devoto, Buenos Aires. Born at Junin, Argentine Republic. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: IX. B. 1. Cemetery: DOZINGHEM MILITARY CEMETERY Name: EASTWOOD, SAM Initials: S Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lieutenant Regiment/Service: The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment Unit Text: 2nd/5th Bn. Age: 25 Date of Death: 10/05/1918 Additional information: Husband of Maud Maria Eastwood, of 34, Clarendon Rd., Blackpool. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. B. 6. Cemetery: BAGNEUX BRITISH CEMETERY, GEZAINCOURT Name: MORRIS, HARRY Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Captain Regiment/Service: The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment Unit Text: 2nd/5th Bn. Date of Death: 26/10/1917 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Enclosure No.6 II. H. 10. Cemetery: BEDFORD HOUSE CEMETERY Continuing the leap..... Could this have been her "beau" and then after he had been killed, she married your great uncle? Two casualties were in October 1917, which might indicate a time frame after which she met your great uncle... although Lt. Eastwood was married.... So, Captain Morris or Lt. Bryan.... or we're completely wrong and he's someone totally different!! Still, a nice thing for Valentine's Day!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichelleH Posted 14 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2010 I shall endeavour to produce a close up of the badges, I will require assistance so it probably won't appear until tomorow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichelleH Posted 15 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2010 Hi is this any easier to see? no its not , I have had a good look and there are small 'T' s under the badges on the collar Thanks for all the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 Michelle's passed me the photo for me to have a bash at zooming in a bit and tweaking the contrast: If I go in any closer, the pic just breaks up into pixels, so this is probably as good as we'll get it Certainly looks like there are "T"s below the regimental collar dogs. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Webb Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 If they were Ts What would that signify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 Hello, The 'T' would signify an Officer of a Territorial Force Battalion. Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 ... And the crossed rifle and pick tells us he was in a Pioneer battalion, so we're looking for a territorial pioneer battalion in the Loyal North Lancashire regiment. Unfortunately there appears to be two: 1st/12th Battalion - formed Lytham April 1915. Pioneers from outset. 2nd/5th Battalion - converted to Pioneers in the Feb 1918 re-organisations See here: LLT: Loyal North Lancashire Regiment [i think there's a typo in the 2nd/5th btn entry: it should read Record same as 2/4th Bn, not same as 1/4th Bn] Still, it's rare that one can shortlist down to two candidate battalions so quickly! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjab612 Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 There are possible links to both these battalions 1st/12th Formed at Lytham St Annes - this is the location of the photographic studio 2nd/5th - formed at Bolton - where Michelle states some of her relatives came from. Where to next- Army Lists? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 Being a bore again, but the only officer casualty in 1st/12th The LNL above 2nd Lt is:- Name: WILKINSON, HORACE Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Captain Regiment/Service: The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment Unit Text: 1st/12th (Pioneer) Bn. Age: 40 Date of Death: 31/10/1918 Additional information: Son of John and Catherine Wilkinson, of Sturton-le-Steeple, Notts. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 1. Cemetery: FRETIN COMMUNAL CEMETERY Now, obviously the chap could have survived, but then why keep a photo? So near to the end of the War might have been very poignant for her, plus he could have been promoted in the time from photo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichelleH Posted 15 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2010 This could well be a complete and utter large red herring....... The man on the right in this photo looks very like the one in the LNL photo. The photographer was from J T Newman, Berkhamsted, Herts. I have only really looked at it closely today. It is from the photo collection of the sister whose husbands family came from Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjab612 Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 This pair look like Royal Artillery to me. You don't have a name for the chap on the right by any chance? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichelleH Posted 15 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2010 nothing, the only info is the photographer on the rear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Mills Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 nothing, the only info is the photographer on the rear Hi Although the photographer operated for a long period the mount may give some more precise indication of the date (if you still need that). I have just had some pics dated by Ron Cosens [enquiries@cartedevisite.co.uk] who charges £4 - only if he is able to provide some information. You will need to send him a high res scan of front and back and measurements of pic and mount - he's a nice helpful guy and will tell you immediately if he can't help. Good luck Lorraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_armstrong Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 Being a bore again, but the only officer casualty in 1st/12th The LNL above 2nd Lt is:- Name: WILKINSON, HORACE .... Age: 40 He doesn't look as old as 40 to me - even less so considering people generally looked older then than people of the same age would today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 I think the photographs are of two different people. Look at the ear lobes they are completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wade Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 There are possible links to both these battalions 1st/12th Formed at Lytham St Annes - this is the location of the photographic studio 2nd/5th - formed at Bolton - where Michelle states some of her relatives came from. Where to next- Army Lists? Peter I'd often wondered about how they'd go about having a picture taken. Would they invite a local photographer to the barracks and he could then take several pictures, (it would have to be worth his while) or would it be an individual thing and they all trot down one by one to get their picture taken in the studio at their own leisure. If the battalion was about to set off for war, would they take the opportunity to photograph everyone (that could afford it) before the off? Or is this idea a bit fanciful? Fantastic picture, by the way. Thanks for sharing it, I wish all mine were even half as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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