ARTHUR DEAN

[David Catlin]

I am new to this Forum, and am trying to find any military service information regarding my Grandfather Arthur Dean. I have visited Kew, without success, but I am aware that the majority of records were destroyed in WW2.

I have his British War, and Victory medals; inscribed CPL 31347 A. DEAN BEDF. R. I've contacted Steve Fuller of Bedfordshire Regiment in the Great War, who has kindly sent me a copy of his medal index card. This shows the above information plus NORF. R. Regtl No. 41831. I also have a photo of him in uniform, embossed United Service Studios Ltd, Ipswich & Felixstowe.

Steve has informed me that Arthur probably joined the Bedfords in early 1916, and at some time transferred to the Norfolks.

The only other information I have comes from my Mother who was born after the War in 1923. She believes he was a Lewis Machine-gunner; that he remembers the tanks first arriving in France; that at some stage he was injured, spending time in a London hospital; but survived the War.

If anyone can shed any light on my Grandfather's service, or point me in the right direction, I would be most grateful

[sotonmate]

Dave

No service record found on Ancestry UK. Medal Index Card has no indication that he might have been discharged to wounds or sickness,so probably discharged at demobilisation, 1919?

His medals were issued by the Norfolk Regt,as being the last he served in,but earned in the Bedfords. The original Medal Roll is located in WO329/842 page 982 in the National Archives at Kew. This will give you the Battalion he served in on first entry into a war theatre. From that you can trace it's War Diary and be able to read of their actions.

Sotonmate

[dundeesown]

His other card ( SWB ) has enlistment date 8/8/1916 date of discharge 28/02/1919,cause of discharge wounds,para XVI Kinks Regs No longer physically fit for war service.

all the best Gary.

[David Catlin]

Many thanks for your help, I'll look up the references you have provided.

All the best

[David Catlin]

His other card ( SWB ) has enlistment date 8/8/1916 date of discharge 28/02/1919,cause of discharge wounds,para XVI Kinks Regs No longer physically fit for war service.

all the best Gary.

Gary,

Thanks for the info. I've been to Kew and can only find a very tatty copy of the SWB card. Any ideas where I could locate a good copy please?

Many thanks,

Dave

[dundeesown]

Hi Dave,you can get it from Ancestry in the search for MICs.

Gary

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Have you looked at the British War + Victory Medals & SWB medal rolls? They may give more information, such as the battalions he served in.

[Raster Scanning]

It appears he served in the 3rd Reserve Battalion from your info (picture). The 3rd Battalion was based at Felixstowe for the duration of the war and apart from home defense were used to train men for the overseas battalions. He would of transferred to an overseas Bedfordshire battalion or conceivably straight to the Norfolks.

Where was he from?

[David Catlin]

It appears he served in the 3rd Reserve Battalion from your info (picture). The 3rd Battalion was based at Felixstowe for the duration of the war and apart from home defense were used to train men for the overseas battalions. He would of transferred to an overseas Bedfordshire battalion or conceivably straight to the Norfolks.

Where was he from?

Thanks. Arthur Dean was born in Croxley Green, Hertfordshire in 1888, and lived in the Croxley Green/Watford area all his life. Married Millie Eliza Edwards in 1913 in Watford. Thought to have spent time in a London hopspital after being injured. Survived the war, and died in Watford in 1964.

[Stebie9173]

It is a habit of the Army to often give men numbers at the same time when they moved from one Regiment to another. Arthur Dean seems to be part of a group of Bedfordshire Regiment men moving to the Norfolks and receiving similar numbers:

Walter A Rowling Bedfordshire Regiment, Norfolk Regiment 16031, 41830 (originally 7th Battalion, KIA 12th Norfolks, 19-8-1918)

Arthur Dean Bedfordshire Regiment 31347, Norfolk Regiment 41831

Percy M Peer Bedfordshire Regiment 203244, Norfolk Regiment 41832

George Blake Bedfordshire Regiment 25454, Norfolk Regiment 41833

James H Redhouse Bedfordshire Regiment 41384, Norfolk Regiment 41833

Ralph Ratcliffe Cambridgeshire Regiment 36770, Bedfordshire Regiment 41977, Norfolk Regiment 41834 (KIA 12th Norfolks, 8-9-1918)

Oliver W Smith Bedfordshire Regiment 41397, Norfolk Regiment 41835

William H Staines Bedfordshire Regiment 45400, Norfolk Regiment 41836 (KIA 12th Norfolks, 15-9-1918)

Harry Scott Bedfordshire Regiment 29661, Norfolk Regiment 41837

Ronald E Tofts Bedfordshire Regiment 49600, Norfolk Regiment 41838

Walter Townsend Bedf 11306, Norfolk Regiment 41839

George Taylor Bedfordshire Regiment 29597, Norfolk Regiment 41841

Joseph Thomas Cheshire Regiment 30687, Bedfordshire Regiment 240786, Norfolk Regiment 41840 (Died of wounds 12th Norfolks, 1-9-1918)

Frank Tibbles Bedfordshire Regiment 26257, Norfolk Regiment 41842

Frederick Warren Bedfordshire Regiment 33505, Norfolk Regiment 41843, Army Service Corps NAC/461187

Stanley Weston Bedfordshire Regiment 25967, Norfolk Regiment 41844

George Whitwell 9/Bedf R 27514, Norfolk Regiment 41845

Arthur J Whitby Bedfordshire Regiment 50230, Norfolk Regiment 41846 (KIA 12th Norfolks, 18-8-1918)

Bertie J Whatling Bedfordshire Regiment 49813, Norfolk Regiment 41847, Norfolk Regiment 72411

Ernest Warner Bedfordshire Regiment 18380, Norfolk Regiment 41848

Daniel Whitehead Bedfordshire Regiment 25172, Norfolk Regiment 41849, Labour Corps 567170, Royal Engineers 363319

The above is actually a smaller part of an extended group of men, but we need to be careful not to look at too large a group as there could be various drafts moving about at similat times. The notes I have added above show that all but one of the men that can be identified to battalions (excluding 41845 Whitwell) all have links to the 12th (Norfolk Yeomanry) Battalion of the Norfolk Regiment after the 12th Norfolks move to the Western Front from the Middle East in June 1918.

One is also known to be with the 7th Battalion, which will link in with service records of the abobe men.

I have currently located the records of two of the above men, the salient points from their records shown below.

William Hugh Staines, born in 1898 and trained via the Training reserve went to France in December 1917 and after some shuffling of regiments ended up in the 8th battalion from 18-12-1917. The 8th Bedfords were soon disbanded and Staines transferred to the 7th Battalion on 8-2-1918. Three months later that battalion was disbanded too. And the personnel transferred to other battalions, mainly to the 2nd Battalion which merged with the 7th Battalion on 26-5-1918, taking Pte. Staines with them. Possibly due to being over sized (Raster Scanning/John may be able to help there - my 7th battalion book is on loan) some men transferred to the 12th Norfolks on 13-7-1918. William Staines was renumbered 41836 when he transferred to the Norfolks.

41842 Frank Tibbles floowed a straighter rout through to the 12th Norfolks - after joining the Bedfords in February 1916 we went to France with 2nd Bedfords and later transferred to the Norfolks on 13-7-1918.

So, TENTATIVELY, this suggests that Arthur Dean may also have transferred to the 12th Norfolks around this time. Even assuming we have the right time and unit for his transfer to the Norfolks, the question of his Bedfords battalion is uncertain as any of the possible chains of events could have happened:

- Posted directly to the 2nd Bedfords when he went overseas, possibly in early 1917 based on his enlistment date.

- Posted to the 7th battalion until the 7th was disbanded in May 1918 and then went to 2nd Battalion

- Posted to 8th Battalion until they were disbanded in February 1918, then to 7th until May 1918, and then to 2nd until July 1918.

- In a completely different battalion before suffering wounds/sickness and then transferred home, returning to the front with one of the above.

Anyway, I suggest you use the above as food for thought only. I think you ought to get his Medal Roll details to find out which battalions he served with in the Bedfords, otherwise the speculation might go too far in the wrong direction...

Steve.