Cemeteries in 'Blighty' near hospitals.

[Joris Ryckeboer]

Cemeteries here were made where they were needed. Near Hospitals (Lyssenthoek or futher like Wimereux), just behind the lines (part of Tyne Cot) or really on the place where the warrior died.

I learn the policy was to bury the dead as fast as possible and certainly without unnecessary use of transport. Transport was needed for the war effort.

What was the policy in 'Blighty'? Are all Military Cemeteries linked with a Hospital? Did relatives have the chance to bury them at home?

Thanks

Joris

[Terry Denham]

The policy was different in the home countries.

The relatives of Commonwealth war dead who died in their home country were allowed two concessions not available to those of men who died abroad.

There were allowed to choose a private headstone instead of the CWGC stone if they so wished and were allowed to bury the casualty wherever they wished - although they had to pay for the necessary transport of the body.

This has lead to there being official war graves in 12,000 cemeteries/churchyards in the UK. Not all were moved to their home towns and there are usually many war graves in the local authority cemeteries near hospitals as well as in a small number of large military cemeteries.

[Joris Ryckeboer]

Thanks Terry!

Same systems like here to maintain them? Are relatives responsible for the maintenance of a CWGC headstone, if they had decided to bury them at a local churchyard? No problems with bad behaviour there?

(SEE: http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=14193)

[Terry Denham]

Joris

CWGC are responsible for all their own headstones in perpetuity - not the relatives. This applies in every country to all the graves in their cemeteries/plots and to those that appear on private graves in the UK and other home countries (Canada, Australia etc).

CWGC are not responsible for private headstones in the UK etc - many of which are now falling into disrepair. These remain the responsibility of the n-o-k but CWGC will try to replace broken private headstones with official stones where they can and if they can gain permission.

Unfortunately, CWGC has more trouble with vandalism in the UK than in any other country and this is not helped by the fact that they do not own most of the plots/graves here. Being in a UK churchyard or local authority cemetery also makes them vulnerable to the cemetery authority wanting to remove headstones for a variety of reasons.

Also there are not often registers available in UK cemeteries.

[Joris Ryckeboer]

"Remove headstones for a variety of reasons" Do you mean; remove them to make a space for a new grave?!?

Thanks,

Joris

[Terry Denham]

No.

The re-use of graves is not common in the UK and War Graves are safe from that problem - even those which are privately owned (excluding re-use for relatives).

Local authorities, church authorities and cemetery companies in the UK sometimes wish to clear cemeteries/churchyards of headstones for safety reasons or to convert the area into a park, garden or nature reserve (usually to avoid high maintenance costs). Occasionally, a cemetery site is sold for redevelopment by the owner and the burials are not always cleared in such circumstances.

If any War Graves suffer these fates, CWGC erect an 'Alternative Commemoration' headstone in a nearby cemetery.

[bogarcher]

Terry

Do i take it that if a local vicar decides to clear a part of a churchyard of headstones, including war grave stones. There is nothing that can be done to prevent it happening?

In a local cemetery where some headstones are in danger of falling over they are laying them flat on the grave, not clearing them. If using h&S as an excuse this is a far better solution dont you think?

Mick

[Terry Denham]

Mick

It is not quite that simple (I know as I am in charge of a cemetery with four war graves).

Firstly, there will be a difference between those war graves with CWGC stones and those with private stones but it will go something like this.....

In a churchyard, it will not be the vicar alone who decides but the Parochial Church Council and other church bodies. They may decide to lay stones flat for safety or remove them altogether. This latter course of action would usually only happen after consultation with the local populace if it is for any reason other than safety.

Also, many churchyards are no longer under the control of the church authorities. When a churchyard is closed for burials (as many now are), it is often handed over to the local civil authority for care and maintenance and it would be they who make such decisions. There is a specific legal provision to allow for this handing over of responsibility - effectively moving the cost of maintenance from the Church to the Council Tax payer.

If any CWGC stones are involved, discussions would have to take place with the Commission. Sometimes the CWGC stone can be left in situ leading to the occassions when you see one single war grave headstone standing all alone. When no agreement can be reached over the matter and a CWGC stone has to be removed, CWGC will erect an 'Alternative Commemoration' headstone elsewhere - sometimes in another cemetery.

This all stems from CWGC having no special rights over war graves in the home countries. It is made worse by the current fad for laying down headstones - ostensibly for safety reasons but often just to make maintenance easier and cheaper. To make it worse, there are commercial companies trying to persuade smaller authorities to have their headstones checked by them and then they, the company, will undertake the remedial work - the more they lay flat, the more they get paid!

Personally, I am against the laying down or removal of headstones except in extreme circumstances due to safety concerns. However, our newly found compensation culture will ensure that such acts continue.

[Joris Ryckeboer]

Hello Terry,

A little sidestep; At Wimereux (Where John McCrae is buried), headstones also lay down. Is it for the same reason (maintenance) or is it true that the ground there is to unstabel?

Joris

[Terry Denham]

The flat headstones at Wimereux are entirely due to the instability of the ground when they were erected - too sandy I think was the reason.