Lorraine Mills Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Hello I am new to this site so please be patient with me. I am researching my family tree and this is one of two different pics I have inherited. From Googling I know that this man is a WW1 corporal and that his belt is 1914. I also think his cap badge is Worcestershire Regiment (which would fit as the family are Warks/Worcs). I don't know his name and can't guess his age, If anybody could give me more information it would help me place him in the family. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 I agree re Worcestershire Regt also. Definately WW1. His tunic is the simplified utility pattern which was made up until mid 1916. The pattern then reverted to the earlier pattern with pleated pocket and shouler / rifle patches. This pattern of tunic was quicker to make to clothe the mass new army being recruited and formed. My guess is the picture is either 1915 or 16. Interesting patch above the rank stripes. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 His tunic is the simplified utility pattern which was made up until mid 1916. The pattern then reverted to the earlier pattern with pleated pocket and shouler / rifle patches. TT The Simplified was actually replaced in mid-1915 with Pattern 8407/1915; but was issued up until 1916. That said, you can see it being worn throughout the war. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john gregory Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Regarding the flash above his stripes, the 14th Worcestershire wore a 2" square flash, red A coy, blue B coy, Yellow C coy, light green D coy all in cotton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Sounds like you know at least a family name? If you let us know some possible candidate surnames, we can often ID the man coming at him from the other direction. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Thanks GT, I will remember that now...you live and learn. I wonder what the latest date was for one being worn in the field? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Mills Posted 8 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Sounds like you know at least a family name? If you let us know some possible candidate surnames, we can often ID the man coming at him from the other direction. Cheers, Mark Hi I am supposing that when someone signed up they couldn't choose which regiment they went in (I said I was new to this!) and had to go in the regiment where they lived - or was it where they were born? Of the 4 grandparent strands of my family the most likely name is Mills, the next likely Walker but the other possible surnames are Watts or Ward. Sorry I can't be more specific. Cheers Lorraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Mills Posted 8 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2010 I agree re Worcestershire Regt also. Definately WW1. His tunic is the simplified utility pattern which was made up until mid 1916. The pattern then reverted to the earlier pattern with pleated pocket and shouler / rifle patches. This pattern of tunic was quicker to make to clothe the mass new army being recruited and formed. My guess is the picture is either 1915 or 16. Interesting patch above the rank stripes. TT Hi Thanks for this. During the war how long would it take for someone to become a corporal? If the pic is 1915/16 would they have joined before mass conscription to get to that rank? Thanks Lorraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 In a personal account I am reading at the moment corporals were identified when recruited and the stripes given out to suitable men on a ad hoc basis. When these recruit NCOs landed in France they were instructed to take down their stripes in deference to men who were at the front and not NCOs. I guess what I am saying is that the front line soldiers were saying...youve got to earn them here pal! The author was an 18 year old soldier sent to France to stem the German offensive in spring 1918. He was made up to corporal quite quickly thereafter. Casualties would lead to rapid promotion in the field. Re regiments you are kinda right. You could try and choose and some units selected their recruits from a certain class and some men had to pay to sign up to some units ( some London territorials for example). Some units would recruit local men. In the same book I am reading the author joined his local regiment the Bedfordshires and when landed in France was told he was now a Lancashire Fusilier. He later was randomly selected for the 10th battalion whilst others he joined with went to other units...where casualties dictated..certainly later in the war anyhow. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Well, with the clues about rank, pre 1916, Warwickshire and 14th Battalion with the patch, plus Mills, Ward, Webb or Watts, this one is on the CWGC database... Name: WATTS, ERNEST Initials: E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Corporal Regiment/Service: Worcestershire Regiment Unit Text: 14th Bn. Age: 27 Date of Death: 17/08/1916 Service No: 26008 Additional information: Husband of Sarah Jane Watts, of 12, Diston's Lane, New St., Chipping Norton, Oxon. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 24. Cemetery: BARLIN COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION but whether it ties in with family only you can say!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Mills Posted 8 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Well, with the clues about rank, pre 1916, Warwickshire and 14th Battalion with the patch, plus Mills, Ward, Webb or Watts, this one is on the CWGC database... Name: WATTS, ERNEST Initials: E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Corporal Regiment/Service: Worcestershire Regiment Unit Text: 14th Bn. Age: 27 Date of Death: 17/08/1916 Service No: 26008 Additional information: Husband of Sarah Jane Watts, of 12, Diston's Lane, New St., Chipping Norton, Oxon. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 24. Cemetery: BARLIN COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION but whether it ties in with family only you can say!! Hi Thank you for this - I will investigate further but I'm not really sure we had an Ernest on th e Watts side. However, after I replied I had a thought. My great grandmother's brother, Thomas Henry Hall, was born in Redditch in 1874 and (if it is him and I can't say for certain) can be found in 1891 as a soldier at Norton Juxta Kempsey, Worcestershire, which must have been a camp as he's with a load of men his age. Presume this is a Worcestershire regiment. This may make him too old for this photo (?) but perhaps it is him in the other pic I posted. I do wish people would write names on the back of photos! Lorraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 .. I am supposing that when someone signed up they couldn't choose which regiment they went in (I said I was new to this!) and had to go in the regiment where they lived - or was it where they were born?Cheers Lorraine Lorraine, Not strictly true, especially earlier in the war before conscription. My grandfather was born in Tenbury Wells and was probably living in Kidderminster by 1914, but he particularly wanted to enlist into an elite regiment, so travelled all the way to the Rifles Depot in Winchester with another pal from Kiddy to join the King's Royal Rifle Corps. His "local" regiment would have been the Worcesters or possibly the KSLI. Only a small group of regiments/corps recruited nationally (or more accurately, had no formal recruitment "territory" allocated to them): the Foot Guards; KRRC and Rifle Brigade; Household Cavalry; Cavalry of the Line (i.e. non-Yeomanry); Royal Engineers; RHA, RFA and RGA; RFC; plus the various support corps: ASC; RAMC; AOC; RMP; Army Pay Corps; and Army Veterinary Corps; and lastly for the duration of the War, the Army Cyclist Corps! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 ... My great grandmother's brother, Thomas Henry Hall, was born in Redditch in 1874 and (if it is him and I can't say for certain) can be found in 1891 as a soldier at Norton Juxta Kempsey, Worcestershire, which must have been a camp as he's with a load of men his age. Presume this is a Worcestershire regiment. This may make him too old for this photo (?) but perhaps it is him in the other pic I posted. I do wish people would write names on the back of photos! Lorraine Lorraine, That's clearly Norton Barracks, which was the Regimental Depot for the Worcestershire Regiment and is just outside Worcester to the SE. The barracks will be in the parish of Norton Juxta Kempsey. As a young cadet it's where I first had the pleasure of firing a Lee Enfield .303! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Mills Posted 9 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2010 Lorraine, That's clearly Norton Barracks, which was the Regimental Depot for the Worcestershire Regiment and is just outside Worcester to the SE. The barracks will be in the parish of Norton Juxta Kempsey. As a young cadet it's where I first had the pleasure of firing a Lee Enfield .303! Cheers, Mark Hi Coincidence! What is the site where you found the info about E Watts? I would be interested to look. Can I take this opportunity to thank everybody for their contribution to identifying the photo I posted. I am overwhelmed by the response. Lorraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 9 February , 2010 Admin Share Posted 9 February , 2010 Lorraine The Commonwealth War Graves Commission http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp?menuid=14 Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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