Cap badge identification - help please!

[Bob Chandler]

Can anyone help identify the cap badges in this picture? A relative of mine sent me some family photos recently and this one was enclosed – bit of a mystery at the moment.

I believe that the type of belt they are wearing indicates Territorials (?).

First step I suppose is actually establishing that it is from the Great War – could it possibly be late 1930s - as my dad and my relative’s father both enlisted in the Berkshire Yeomanry / Territorial RA just before war broke out (although these are clearly not the right insignia for BY).

Cheers

Charles

[high wood]

They appear to be wearing buttons as cap badges. This I believe was a temporary measure adopted by certain units until the issue of the correct badge. I have pictures of soldiers wearing similar buttons at Sutton Veny in 1916; 3rd line territorials.

The leather belt appears to be the 1914 pattern leather belt.

[MBrockway]

Charles,

They look like General Service buttons used as cap badges to me, which is bad news when you're trying to identify a unit.

There's a lot of info about use of GS buttons in the cap here on the Forum if you do a Search.

No shoulder titles being worn either

I think the belts are the 1914 Pattern leather belt, which were not limited to TF units. Another possibility though is one of the earlier Victorian snakehead leather belts used by the rifles regiments and various militia/volunteer units - inputs from the real uniform experts need here though!

My money is on this being a Kitchener unit at a UK training camp, out of Kitchener "Blues" but only partially equipped with proper uniform: still missing cap badges and shoulder titles. Probably early 1915 ???

Any chance of a zoomed in view?

Cheers,

Mark

[Bob Chandler]

Any chance of a zoomed in view?

Cheers,

Mark

Let me just get my photoshop skills into action........

[Bob Chandler]

About the best I can do, I'm afraid.

Can I just throw one more question into the mix - is there any chance these could be newly enlisted Gunners? Small clue as to possible identity of one of the men on back of postcard.

Many thanks

Charles

[Andrew Upton]

I think the belts are the 1914 Pattern leather belt, which were not limited to TF units. Another possibility though is one of the earlier Victorian snakehead leather belts used by the rifles regiments and various militia/volunteer units - inputs from the real uniform experts need here though!

They're 1914 pattern leather belts - the big give-away is the brass adjuster either side of the buckle and the squared leather backing to the buckle. Earlier patterns tend to either have no leather backing to the buckle or a sort of pointed-oval leather backing piece, and usually had the buckle stitched in place on one side (hence only had one brass adjusting buckle on the other side).

[Graham Stewart]

They belong to a Training Reserve Battalion - these wore the GS button as a capbadge as per ACI's for 1916. Later TR Bde numerals would be worn on the upper arm and later still Battalion numerals would replace the button badge.

[MBrockway]

They belong to a Training Reserve Battalion - these wore the GS button as a capbadge as per ACI's for 1916. Later TR Bde numerals would be worn on the upper arm and later still Battalion numerals would replace the button badge.

Quite right Graham - I'd forgotten that! Senior moment

See also here: TR's use of GS buttons in Topic: Help with unidentified WWI soldiers

and Pal max7474 posted some good pictures of a GS button with a soldered-on slider in the same Topic.

My old post links to the Mother Site here: LLT - Training Reserve

I'm not sure whether we ever resolved if the Kitchener battalions made use of the General Service button as a cap badge or whether this was a myth arising from confusion with the Training Reserve?

Cheers,

Mark