Honour Guard - Fromelles - 30th January

[Peter35]

I hope this is not too off Topic.

I understand the British Regiment in attendance at the (re)burying of the first Digger was the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.

I was struck by the “old” Regiment of Foot ‘battalion company’ feathers/tufts on the berets.

From their British Army site I learn:

The Hackle was awarded in recognition for the defeat of the French at the Battle of St Lucia in 1778. The white hackles were removed from the French dead by the Fusiliers. In 1829 King William IV ordered the white plume to be worn by all line infantry regiments, and in order not to take away from the Fifth (Northumberland) Regiment of Foot's battle honour, their plume was distinguished with a red tip making the plume red over white.

However, I recall reading somewhere that a current Regiment had retained the red over white 'battalion' feather in

their current uniform. Given the extract above, it would appear it was not the Fusiliers.




Could someone please advise either whether I'm delusional or details of my mystery Regiment.





Thanks.




Peter

[woolly]

Peter,

Currently there are three infantry regiments who wear a hackle in their beret or Tam o'Shanter. These are as follows:

Royal Regiment of Fusiliers - red/white

Royal Welsh Regiment - white

The Royal Scots Borderers, 1st Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland - black

The Royal Highland Fusiliers, 2nd Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland - white

The Black Watch, 3rd Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland - red

The Highlanders, 4th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland - blue

The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, 5th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland - green

52nd Lowland, 6th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland - white/black

51st Highland, 7th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland - red/blue/green

Hope this helps!

Woolly

[Peter35]

Thanks Woolly.

Given your advice, on the one hand, IF there’s any “truth” in my recollection, the Regiment must be the Fusiliers.

On the other hand, my recollection isn’t in accord with: “In 1829 King William IV ordered …..”.

I thought I’d read the comment in something of WY Carman’s. I’ll have to root through my files again.

Regards,

Peter

Hope this helps!

Woolly

[Colin W Taylor]

I'm not getting where the confusuion lies.

The 5th Northumberland Regiment of foot went on to become the Northumberland Fusiliers

In the 1960s they, with the Royal Warwickshire Regiment (Made into fusiliers a few years before), the Royal Fusilers and the Lancashire Fusiliers made up the Fusiliers Brigade in the Infrantry regional system (Guards Bde, Wessex Bde etc). In the 1990s all four were amalgamated into the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers. The RRF retained the 5th's hackle as they would have been senior regiment.

As such they carry the hackle and wore it whilst conducting the ceremonies at Fromelles.

As for 1829 I'm sure it was a fad by the then king, over time those regiments to which the hackle had importance (i.e. those regiments with history as fusiliers; NF, RF, LF, RSF, RWFetc) kept it, whilst most others discarded it.

I may be wrong in minor details but I can't see a ghost regiment anywhere

C

[Steven Broomfield]

The Guard of Honour (not Honour Guard, please - that's for the chaps the other side of the pond ) was defintely RRF.

I always thought the Fusilier hackle was to represent the puff of an old fashioned grenade (obviously the grenade-shaped badge has a relevance here) going off.

Many regiments wore, and their descendant regiments still wear, coloured badge backings and so on, and there are probably as many inaccurate stories as accurate ones as to why and wherefore.

[Peter35]

Thank you to all who replied.

I’ve confused my cockades and plumes. Finally found what I was looking for in my files.

The cockade continued to be worn on the shako when it replaced the bicorne in 1800 and, of course, survives today as the button shaped twist of cord worn under officers’ cap badges in some regiments, including The Rifles. The reason it (sort of) stuck in the back of my mind was because The Rifles are the present day successor regiment of the 11^th Regiment of Foot, which an ancestor joined in 1792.

Steve, I’m sure from where you’re standing in the water you’re correct. (Military precision was never a strong point of we Blue Orchids). However, for what it’s worth, my Army officer son tells me that on this side of the Pacific pond both Guard of Honour and Honour Guard are “correct”. We suspect this is because the Australian defence forces use more terms from our American cousins than you do of your Atlantic cousins.

Peter

[Victoria Burbidge]

Just to clarify, and for those who may be attending the rest of this month’s burials in Fromelles, the British half of the burial party will be represented by men of the 1st Battalion Royal Regiment of Fusiliers (30 January – 12 February) and the 4th Battalion The Rifles (15 February – 26 February).

V.