Transfer from 7th to 19th London Regiment 1918

[nealw66]

I have started to look at a number of men who transfered from the 7th to 19th Btns of the London regiment (specifically James Edward Wreford 7303 and 353602).

I have tracked down the records of a couple of them, and they have the attached stamped in them.

The gist is fairly clear, but can anyone help with the reference "Lr S,7074"?

Does anyone know if that order / authorisation is likely to have survied, and if so, where it might be found?

Many thanks,

Neal

[sotonmate]

Neal

I imagine that it is GHQ Letter S7074 of 25 Jan 1918. It might be worth tracing where these units were and which GHQ they were attached to. If in a war theatre you might get to find a copy in the whichever Army GHQ War Diary.

Sotonmate

Edit: looks like 3rd Army around Cambrai Nov 1917. LLT gives 7th in 141 Bde and 19th in 140 Bde of 47 Div. Early Feb 1918 the 7th absorbed the 2/7th and the 19th came into 140 Bde,it looks elsewhere like 174 Bed of 58 Div so a bit confusing. I am wondering if the amalgamation of 1/7 and 2/7 threw up some spares which went to the 19th.

[nealw66]

Thanks Sotonmate,

I think GHQ Diaries might have to wait on the "to do" pile for a while - far too many Batallion ones to go through first.

I had also noticed the timing with regard to the amalgamation of 1/7th and 2/7th, and you may be right about spares going to 19th. If / when I find that letter, I'll let you know!

Thanks again, Neal

[Charles Fair]

Neal

I'm pretty certain that its the instruction to divisions as to which battalions were to be disbanded. I would however like to see a copy. I've been meaning to dig around 47 Div HQ war diary around that date.

I've written a bit about this in my paper on the 19th Londons. Here is the relevant section:

Early 1918 - the Divisional Reorganisation and the March Retreat

The final year of the war saw further diminution in the local character of the Battalion. In early 1918 this was caused by two specific factors in addition to the allocation of drafts of conscripts. First was the reorganisation of early 1918 when infantry brigades were reduced from four to three battalions. Memories recalled that "great anxiety was felt by every battalion as to which would suffer in consequence. We ourselves feared that as our numbers were still small we should lose our identity, but fortunately we were spared".(1) In the 47th Division the 1/6th, 1/7th and 1/8th Battalions of the London Regiment, all of 140 Brigade, were selected for disbandment.(2) Orders for this reorganisation appear to have been issued on 28th January, and the disbandments were completed on 2 February. Their men were dispersed between either their own second-line battalions in 58th (London) Division or other battalions of the 47th Division.(3)

Stretcher bearer Frank Dunham was one of the 1/7th London men.(4) He recalled that on 29 January, 14 officers and 350 other ranks were transferred to the 1/19th, while the remainder went to join the 2/7th London Regiment in the 58th Division. He found that the 19th Londons did certain things differently from the 7th Londons, and this caused some initial dissatifaction, but ‘our opinions gradually changed and in a very short time we became loyal 19th men.’(5)

Pte Dunham undoubtedly found this adjustment possible because at least he moved within the 47th Division, so was able to maintain his pride in the division. In addition he stayed within the London Regiment, so had a large degree of common background.

Another 1/7th Londoner was Sgt Sidney Weaver whose career in the Territorial Force illustrates many points already discussed above.(6) He enlisted in the 25th (Cyclist) Battalion London Regt on 21 March 1912 and was mobilised on the outbreak of war. He served with the 1/25th on the East Coast, then as an instructor with the 3/25th until the whole battalion was transferred en masse to the 3/10th London Regt. He went to France on 28 October 1916 with a draft of 300 men, and was transferred to the 1/7th Londons after three weeks in a base depot at Le Havre. He took four weeks 'reengagement leave' in May and June 1917. He was transferred (on paper) to the 1/19th when the 1/7th was disbanded in January 1918, though in practice did not arrive until 28th May since he was on attachment to the 47th Divisional Salvage Company at the time. He became Acting CSM on 28th August, and remained with the 1/19th until he returned to England for officer training on 12 October 1918. Weaver had thus served under four different cap badges of the London Regiment.

(1) 'War History of the First Battalion, December 1917 - March 1918', Memories, Vol III, No. 22 (Autumn 1925), p192

(2) This reorganization has been criticised for being unnecessarily complicated. See for example John Hussey, ‘The British Divisional Reorganisation in February 1918’, Stand To! No. 45, January 1996. In the 47th Division the simplest and most expedient method would have simply to disband the weakest battalion in each brigade, and to redistribute those officers and men among the other battalions in that brigade.

(3) A detailed description of the 47th Division reorganisation is given in Alan H Maude (ed), The 47th (London) Division 1914-19, Amalgamated Press, 1922, pp. 145-147

(4) RW Haigh and PW Turner (eds), The Long Carry: The War Diary of Stretcher Bearer Frank Dunham 1916-1918, Pergamon Press, 1970 p. 121

(5) Ibid p. 123

(6) Weaver papers, Liddle Collection, Brotherton Library, University of Leeds

It is worth digging out the Divisonal History for a fuller explanation. I have worked through the medal rolls of the 7th Londons and Private Dunham is about right with his recollection of the number of men transferred from the 1/7th to the 1/19th. It pretty much tallies with what I found.

Hope this is useful.

Charles