Fromelles cornet

[IanA]

Having just watched the ceremony at Fromelles. I see that the last post was supposedly played on a cornet carried at Fromelles and found on Ebay 3 or 4 months ago. Does anyone know anything further about this? The co-incidence appears to be staggering.

I thought that, given the responsibility of his task, the cornet player did very well indeed but I have seldom seen a more nervous musician.

[wheelsjbl]

There was a small piece on tonight's news here about it, although they called it a bugle.

Apparantly they are about to start re-interring several hundred Australian soldiers as a result of the Fromelles project, something like 30 a day every second day during February and that instrument

is going to be used to play the Last Post at each burial.

[Auimfo]

That's correct Ian. Here's a bit from the Sydney Morning Herald today that explains a bit more:

"Today's first reburials of the lost men of Fromelles, conducted with full military honours, will unfold to the haunting sound of the Last Post - played on a battered old cornet which belonged to the 31st Battalion and was found and bought by a soldier's descendant on eBay.

Peter Nelson, whose grandfather survived Fromelles, had been researching the 31st Battalion when he spotted the cornet which was clearly inscribed with the name of the company as well as the instrument's donor, a Queensland grazier.

"It was three or four months back and I saw a dealer in NSW put it up for sale. I'm a member of the 31st Battalion association. … the battalion is still current in Townsville and in service," he told the Herald yesterday.

"It's battered and bent and seen quite a few years gathering dust somewhere but the dealer who saw it saw the inscription and a dollar in it. I had it restored, a few spare parts and it's back to working order. I got in touch with Tim Whitford, [a descendant] of one of the men, who put me in touch with General Mike O'Brien. They checked their musicians could play it and now it's on its way to France with the Federation Guard contingent."

Although it doesn't state whether the cornet was the one used by the 31st Bn at the time of the Fromelles battle. I know Peter quite well, so I'll get in touch and find out more about it for you.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[kenf48]

I thought that, given the responsibility of his task, the cornet player did very well indeed but I have seldom seen a more nervous musician.

In fairness I think he was trying to keep his lips warm while waiting his cue rather than nerves - it looked so cold surprised they didn't stick to the mouthpiece, as you say he did very well indeed.

Ken

PS The thought did occur to me that probably those soldiers don't get to wear those greatcoats often - added to the authenticity in a way, emphasising the distance from Australian midsummer

[IanA]

Yes, it looked like he was warming the mouthpiece. The responsibility and the drama of the moment are enough without having to cope with a freezing instrument.

I must admit, my first reaction on reading of the Ebay auction and the proximity and the publicity of the Fromelles ceremony was that the cornet was likely a fake put up to entice the gullible to part with large amounts of money - it just seems too good to be true. I will be interested to see if Tim comes up with any further news of it.

[Pighills]

Unfortunately I didn't catch the actual ceremony (hoping I may catch it later elsewhere) but I did see 'bits' on BBC News 24.

On the piece I saw the musician was interviewed about the cornet and afterwards the interviewer said he was being modest as it was him (the musician) who had also restored the piece.

It did look really cold there today, especially with the light snowfall.

[Bombadier]

The Last Post this morning was, I am sure, played on a bugle. The photo above is of a cornet. There appears to be some confusion here. Can anybody clarify? Was the bugle used this morning an original from the battle or has somebody put 2 and 2 together and made 5?

Nigel

[IanA]

I saw the last post being played and it was undoubtedly played on the above cornet.

[chrislock]

No confusion. The Last Post was indeed played by the above instrument mentioned however, the Reveille was played by a British soldier bugler alongside. Maybe the volley fire made him shake, he was stood close enough.

Don't know about the smell of napalm in the morning, but the smell of burnt cordite was most poignient.

[nigelcave]

Strictly off topic, but vaguely on topic... Have you noticed that they keep saying that this is the first CWGC since the Second World War ones were erected (actually the statement is (was) also on the 'billboard' notice in front of the cemetery). That might be true about France and even Europe, but surely the last new cemetery was after the Falklands War?

[ulsterlad2]

, but surely the last new cemetery was after the Falklands War?

But is the Falklands one a strict cwgc cemetery? Is there such a thing as a mod cemetery?

[nigelcave]

But is the Falklands one a strict cwgc cemetery? Is there such a thing as a mod cemetery?

Two constructed after the Falklands War - the British one is Blue Beach Military Cemetery; there is also an Argentinean one near Goose Green (but I am not too clear how involved the CWGC is, if at all, with the latter). I gather the Argentinean families are responsible for its upkeep. I also gather that one of the Argentinean pilots, whose body was recovered fairly recently (?2007), despite being flown home for DNA testing, was returned to be buried there at the request of his family.

[River97]

Two constructed after the Falklands War - the British one is Blue Beach Military Cemetery; there is also an Argentinean one near Goose Green (but I am not too clear how involved the CWGC is, if at all, with the latter). I gather the Argentinean families are responsible for its upkeep. I also gather that one of the Argentinean pilots, whose body was recovered fairly recently (?2007), despite being flown home for DNA testing, was returned to be buried there at the request of his family.

The cemeteries in the Falklands are not CWGC cemeteries. The CWGC was contracted to design the cemeteries after the war, however, that is as far as they went. They are classed as MOD Cemeteries.

They may be maintained by the CWGC under a certain contract, as are some others throughout the world, but certainly not CWGC cemeteries.

Cheers Andy.

Watched the footage of the service on the net last night, and very moving. Hopefully some of them will have names on their headstones.

[Fedelmar]

Here is the BBC Video. You will find a couple of links underneath, on of which is again of the bugle.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8488984.stm

By the way, spare a thought for the 'skippy lads', some of them have come from temps in the mid to high 30's and others possibly 40+. Not much time to get used to the cold of France methinks

I have to admit that after all this time of working on the history of the Fromelles Lads and watching this first burial, it proved to be extremely emotional for me.

Lest We Forget!

Sandra

[27thBN]

I watched it and it was very solemn right up to the part where the bugle /coronet was about to play and it was cut did i miss something the most important part and it was ..cut ..missing seems a bit insulting to everyone to stop at that point on the clip or was it before the service

MC

[Guest HappyJack31]

Yes there are a great many coincidences with this cornet.

Yes I did pick it up on ebay about Aug 2009 from a dealer in NSW.

Yes it was in a state of disrepair, with a major tear, some broken bits, missing 2 valves and the slides stuck with age.

Had it repaired/restored by a well known company in Melbourne.

Have been researching the 31st Bn AIF for a great many years now and knew of the significance of this instrument. Right from the time of acquiring it, I just knew it had place of its own in remembering the sacrifices of the past. I felt at that time it should go on a pilgrimage to Fromelles.

Fortunately another good friend and contact put me in touch with the Australia Fromelles Project Team and only in mid January

did we travel to Canberra to entrust it to the team. Even then it still depended upon the Musician giving the OK. Initial reports were that he believed there may have been a small air leak, but he was willing to take it with the contingent to Fromelles.

I truly admire the professionalism and talents of Musician Poole in his ability to get the cornet up to a reasonable standard for the occassion. Well done.

This instrument not only by way of the presentation inscription but also a contemporary picture of an informal group photo of the 31st Battalion 'Ragtime' Band (see AWM site), clearly was with the Battalion from its inception in Brisbane, to Broadmeadows(Vic),across to Egypt, notably with the battalion at its first major tragic action at Fromelles, and throughout the war. Am endeavouring to find out more about its whereabouts of the intervening years. So many of those who fell would have heard its sounds in 1915-16 and really seemed fitting they should hear them again at their final farewell.

My congrats to the Australian Army for their initiatives in looking after their own and forgoing any protocols in having an "old" cornet rather than a bugle play the Last Post etc.

Strange as it may seem but this cornet seems to have a mind of its own.

It has a great many stories attached to it, hopefully a great many memories of good times, and may it cause all to remember the "boys of Fromelles".

p.s. it was presented by Mr A.J. Cotton, father of Sidney Cotton who I believe "caused a lot of trouble over there"....... another war ,another story

[Auimfo]

G'day Peter!!

Glad to see you here and to hear the story of the cornet (I hadn't had a chance to email you yet!!)

It's certainly a fascinating tale. You must have been gobsmacked to see it up for sale, especially given the timing. Perhaps it's just another one of those 'coincidences' that was meant to be.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[Fedelmar]

Welcome Peter ... and congratulations ... more goosebumps for me.

I am not with Tim about 'coincidences' as I firmly believe that the boys have their own way of doing things and 'manipulate' events for specific reasons even if we don't fully understand why some things happen.

It would have been a pilgrimage of a very special kind.

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[Pighills]

Hello Peter and welcome to the forum.

Thank you for posting more information regarding the cornet. It's a fascinating story and very good of you to tell us.

[green_acorn]

Peter,

I'll also add my welcome and I look forward to reading more of your research on the 31st Battalion.

Well done on the extraordinary eBay find and your generosity in loaning it to Army for the reinterntment ceremonies. I do hope the cornet finds a suitable long term public home, rather than ending back up on eBay in many years to come.

Cheers,

Hendo

[IanA]

Thanks for that bit of history, Peter. It would be fascinating if you could indeed give the cornet some provenance. I would find it interesting if you could manage to post some photos here showing the instrument in greater detail.

I must admit, my nasty suspicious mind wondered about an unscrupulous dealer getting hold of an old instrument and 'doctoring' it to make it appear to have associations which it never had. Any additions/ engravings could be aged by a rub down with a bit of vinegar and burying in the garden for a week or two. Given the public interest which the Pheasant Wood project has created in Australia, such a rogue would expect an inflated price for a bit of scrap metal. I imagine the military authorities must have thought through that and be satisfied that it is indeed the real thing. The musician playing it did a very fine job in circumstances which were far from perfect.

Welcome to the forum.

Ian

[ianw]

"So many of those who fell would have heard its sounds in 1915-16 and really seemed fitting they should hear them again at their final farewell."

I couldn't agree more. What a great story. These items do have a way of surfacing but it also takes someone with knowledge and who cares to give a helping hand.

I agree that praise is due to the Australian Army for having the imagination to agree to its use.

[MelPack]

I second Ianw's comments.

Mel

[Guest HappyJack31]

Will try and upload quite a few photos I'd taken: from ebay, upon acquiring with tear and missing valves etc, post repair, restorer Dave Wright, am satisfied 'not' doctored and understood Muician Poole's concerns re hygiene as it had accumulated many years of gunk. As I mentioned this instrument seems to have a way of its own and just had to be there to give the boys a final resting tune.

Peter N

Apologies only the ebay photos attached, as the other photos exceed the upload limit.

Still need to get up to speed on postings etc.

Can the pre and post restoration photos if still doubts.

[IanA]

Thanks for the photos. It certainly appears genuine to me and your delight at finding it can only be imagined.

Ian