Active service or not?

[nivxs01]

Hello all.

Researching my great uncle. Regtl. No 130882

From his 'Record of Services sheet' I see he joined the Royal Scots Fus March 1916.

Posted to the 10th Works corp in Aug 1916.

Next entry is Transferred to 27th Fus (It looks like!) in Sept 1916.

Then transferred to the Labour corp 296th (I think) in Aug 1917.

Then transferred to the RAMC (8 Coy. Royal Army Med Corp) in Sept 1917.

Next entry is his Demobilization in Dec 1919.

So he spent 3yrs 282 days in service, but from this sheet can I say that he didnt serve abroad ? Would it be stated on this record if he did?

Many thanks

Victor

[daggers]

Welcome to the Forum. The only thing you missed out was a name!

The National Archives Documents Online site shows five soldiers with the number you quoted, but numbers were often changed on transfer or for other reasons.

One of them is shown as Labour Corps: James Hyde. If that is your man, he probably served overseas and he will have earned campaign medals. You can download the card from Docs Online for £2 by card, or from Ancestry, free.

D

Others are from Scottish Horse, RFA (2), ASC.

[kenf48]

James Hyde 130822 Private Labour Corps was entitled to the British War Medal and the Victory Medal

see http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/themedals.htm

This means he served overseas in a theatre of war after January 1916

See also http://www.1914-1918.net/rsfus.htm

I suspect 27th referred to in your original post is the 27th Brigade which means he was in the 6th (Service) Bn of the Royal Scots Fusiliers which became a Pioneer Battn, (which fits with Labour Corps) after he left for the RAMC. Therefore if this supposition correct, he served in France. Next step is the war diary.

Further info on RAMC here http://www.ramc-ww1.com/index.html

Ken

[nivxs01]

Welcome to the Forum. The only thing you missed out was a name!

The National Archives Documents Online site shows five soldiers with the number you quoted, but numbers were often changed on transfer or for other reasons.

One of them is shown as Labour Corps: James Hyde. If that is your man, he probably served overseas and he will have earned campaign medals. You can download the card from Docs Online for £2 by card, or from Ancestry, free.

D

Others are from Scottish Horse, RFA (2), ASC.

Hello Daggers,

Name is Charles Simpson (not me! my G uncle ! hi) I got his record from Ancestry.co.uk, but couldnt work out the National Archive site. Be very interested if u could tell me what your looking at and how I get to the same place.....many thanks for replying....>>

[dundeesown]

Hi how did you come to get the number 130882? The N.A. has five Charles Simpsons in the R.S.F. but that number is not on any of them.

Gary.

[nivxs01]

Hi Kenf48, many thanks for the links. I'm following them. Yes, from the ancestry site the sheet is missing its upper left side/corner and all i can see of the column 'Corps in which served' is the word 'Fus', with underneath the letters 'TR' and 'Anz' or similar, and the next column, the 'Batt or Depot' has the '27th' in it, then next column 'Promotions Reductions, Casualities &c' has Transferred and underneath the authorising ref number. What about the main question, if he did any tours abroad would the page I'm looking at, be the sheet that they would be recorded on? Would anybody who joined these corps have NOT served in France or other place ?

[nivxs01]

Hello Gary,

From ancestry, they had about ten or so pages associated with this individual. From the page 'Record of Service Papers' It has his name at the top with the number 130882 stamped at top left before the questions answered by Charles. His medical class on joining is given as C (II), so i think that is class C2. With the 'Royal Scots Fusilliers' stamp on the line at the bottom which starts 'I approve the acceptance.......to the' and the stamp of the recuiting office at 159 Bath St Glasgow. Dated 22 Aug 1916. Charles lived at 28 North Park St. The next page I have with his reg no is the 'Protection Cert & Cert of ID' which has his number in the Regtl No field, - rank as - Private (PTE), Unit as 'No 8 Coy' & regt or Corps as 'RAMC'. Then his address and the theatre as NORTHERN, his birth date, Med class as B2 and lastly place of rejoining as Kinross. Any help with these points would be appreciated....>>>

[nivxs01]

Forgot to contimue, The next page i have with his reg no is the 'Form of Receipt to accompany Documents and Statement as to Disability (Army Form Z. 22)'. What is this form. ? It has the date of demobolisation. I have a page called 'First Award - Soldier' which looks like his refusal for a pension. He was 23 yrs old at this time !...>>>

[Ivor Lee]

You have me intrigued and I would like to look at his records before trying to give you a definative answer.

Is his record in the WW1 Service Records or what Ancestry calls the "Pension Records"?

From your posting I have a feeling the September 1916 transfer may have been to the 27th Battalion, Royal Fusiliers who were stationed in Edinburgh.

My thought for this is that 296 Company, Labour Corps was a reserve company stationed at Blairgowrie, another Scottish posting.

Ivor

[Ivor Lee]

Found his records on Ancestry - I see what you mean about the problem trying to read them.

I am almost certain that all his service was in the UK.

On the page that shows the units his was in there are a few clues.

As you said the letters TR appear on the line underneath the 27th Fus reference.

In September 1916 the 27th Battalion Royal Fusiliers became the 103rd Training Reserve Battalion ( the TR)

His transfer to the Labour Corps in 1917 includes the reference you thought was Anz. It is actually Authy the abbreviation for Authority SC (Scottish Command) letter CR 16255

I can tell you that up to his transfer to the RAMC all his service was in the UK.

As to regimental numbers - at the top of the page that shows his transfers are two numbers shown 26928 (I think this is either the RSF or Royal Fusiliers number) and 388109. I am sure 388109 is his Labour Corps number. It fits with a transfer to the Labour Corps in August 1917.

In addition I have come across other men transferred from Training Reserve Battalions to the Labour Corps at this time and also of another man in 296 Company who was transferred to the RAMC on the same day (4 September 1917)

On his Protection Certificate is his RAMC regimental number - 130882.

I cannot find a medal card for any of the regimental numbers so I think it safe to assume all his service was UK based.

Ivor

[nivxs01]

Hi there Ivor Lee.

In the Serivce records WW1 1914-1918 . in the panel on the right the first letter of surname 's' etc to 'sim' and his address of 28 North Park St is one of the top results returned in Ancestry.

[nivxs01]

Many thanks Ivor for the detail. Is it unusual for a soldier to remain at home during WW1 ?...He was a very slight fellow..4; 7.5 in with a 32 " chest ! at age 21 .......I see he tried 'Constapation' as a medical condition for a pension !!..hi...>>>>

[nivxs01]

Ivor, is the Labour Corp the same as the Works corp?.... He was a 'Holeborer' on his joining paper, and after leaving in 1919 he is mentioned in 1921 as a 'vertical machine man'. (same idea !!) ..This is as a witness at a wedding. I cant find his death though, but thats not going to be solved here, although maybe I could get pointers of where to look. I have been using Scotlandspeople for all my resaerch of my fathers side. He was from Glasgow. Would Charles have joined the Works Corp as a MINER then ? I thought he might have been digging in Europe, but it dosent look like it...thats why he survived I suppose....because he never left Scotland....Would he have remained in Scotland do u think?..or with the ARMC would he have travelled to the south of england to treat the wonded coming home???....any thoughts...>>>>

[Ivor Lee]

His medical classification C II on joining would mean he was only fit enough for service in the UK.

I should have said he was in the 10th Works Company (not corp).

He would have been placed in a Works Company because of his medical rating not his civilian occupation.

As to where he would have served with the RAMC - not an area I know anything about. It could have been in Scotland as wounded men were brought back to all parts of the UK. My wife's gransfather, for example, was from Liverpool but after being wounded in France was brought to the UK and sent to a hospital in Dundee.

Ivor

[BJanman]

Private (PTE), Unit as 'No 8 Coy' & regt or Corps as 'RAMC'. Then his address and the theatre as NORTHERN, his birth date, Med class as B2 and lastly place of rejoining as Kinross. Any help with these points would be appreciated....>>>

8 Coy was situated in and around York. Northern means he was in the Northern Command area. Medical Class B was "Fit for service abroad, but not for general service: i.e. free from serious organic disease, and able to stand service conditions on lines of communication in France or in garrisons in the Tropics, and [2] was "In labour units, or in garrisons or regimental outdoor employment." However he did not appear to serve abroad with the RAMC.

I read Kinross as a place of rejoining to be the place for him to go to if he was called up again.

Barbara

[nivxs01]

OK Many thanks Ivor & Barbara. Good info to digest. He wasn't a superhero then !..hi.......OK it is only three years of his life, but glad to have that interesting insight. Now that I've found this forum, i'll be around occasionally to read the posts. All interesting stuff. If I come up with any other questions I'll post, but thanks to all who replied to this intital query.