request Photo ID: uniforms, caps & medals - date: 27.04.1918

[GregoryB]

edit - deleted.

[KevinBattle]

My initial reaction was that the "soldier" is not British, but perhaps French (or more likely, Belgian) and that he may have been an "escort" for the ceremony for your ancestor (ggg grandfather is a bit of a mouthful!!)

I presume that "23" would be his Regiment, and the medal he is wearing looks continental with crossed swords on a "Maltese" style cross (I'm sure there is a more correct heraldic term for it). The tassel might help with identification of the unit, reminds me a bit of Greek caps, but must have been in use in other armies... The collar and badge on his sleeve will also no doubt be clues.

He does look untidy in comparison, perhaps he was awarded his medal during the same investiture?

The records of awards that day may be available for experts to research and his identity may be known that way...

It's a very fine uniform for Captain Brouckxon, you must be proud of him.

As for the reference to "fishing in uniform" I think that will not mean tunics etc as in soldiers, but more likely heavy "naval" sweaters etc

I can't imagine that he would have been very welcome in Buckingham Palace if that was the uniform worn while gutting fish, although that may explain why the other guy seems to be leaning away from him!!

[Andrew Upton]

i was told that the photo was taken before Buckingham Palace right after he received his DSC medal from King Georges V on 27th april 1918.

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The only thing i really know about this picture is that it is him on the right, and that the medal he is wearing should be a DSC.

Also, i do not know anything about the man on the left. Is he an English soldier? Navy? What medal could he be wearing? what\'s the meaning of the number 23 on his hat?

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Here are the close-ups of the other man\'s hat and medal:

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My initial reaction was that the \"soldier\" is not British, but perhaps French (or more likely, Belgian) and that he may have been an \"escort\" for the ceremony for your ancestor (ggg grandfather is a bit of a mouthful!!)

The medal certainly appears to be the DSC, and my first thought was the other soldier was Belgian (the tasseled cap is fairly distinctive to Belgian soldiers):

http://www.grantsmilitaria.com/militariaph...ages.asp?key=79

He appears to have the Belgium Croix de Guerre up as well (which makes sense), so I would imagine the two have both just been presented with their medals at about the same time and are having the obligatory photograph to record the event for posterity.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

I was curious about the cap, the sword, the uniform: is this 'everyday' or ceremonial clothing - i guess the sword is a ceremonial item, but what about the cap? (I read in old local papers that the boat's crew was required to fish in uniform.)

As you asked us to comment on the obvious, I will! Richard Brouckxon has been presented with a decoration by King George V and so is in ceremonial uniform including polished footwear, all of which he was unlikely to wear at sea! I've read comments trying to get the fishermen at sea to wear uniform and the occasional charges brought against some that didn't.

The man standing next to him is not wearing a decoration from the British Empire, and appears not to be in a uniform of the British Empire, so maybe he was decorated in a joint allied ceremony?

[ARABIS]

Hello Gregory,

Just a small comment on the photo. Richard Brouckxon is wearing a Petty Officers' cap badge. The rest of his uniform is correct for a Skipper RNR which is Warrant Officer rank.

Here is an illustration of the correct cap badge.

Regards,

David.

[Verrico2009]

interesting remark about the cap badge- i'm wondering how that came to be...

Borrowed? Nervous getting ready and reached for the wrong one? Perhaps availability? My avatar photo is my great-uncle and based on my research on the uniform it couldn't have been after 1915 as the cap was discontinued that year (replaced by the "gor-blimey" - very different): it wasn't before 1915 because of the loose-fitting clothes his wife is wearing, which only came in that year in response to the new type of work women were now required to do. When we got his naturalisation papers from Kew, I was surprised to (a) discover that he was our "mystery man" and ( he didn't enlist until the end of July 1916!

[Wardog]

Will need an expert to confirm but I think white cap covers were worn in home waters during the Summer months, Winter- no cover. I think white covers /uniform would have also been used in the Med/tropics etc-warm waters. Sure a Naval type can fill in the details or correct me. So nothing to do with rank etc. I think the Navy started having its caps made with white tops only in the 1950's, as they still are today. Regards, Paul.

[MBrockway]

* why is the other man wearing 'long socks' - does this have a practical use (horseman?) or is it uniform fashion of the time?

(is he wearing short pants, or long ones with the 'socks' over them?)

thanks,

Gregory

These are puttees. Do a Forum Search on puttees.

He seems to be wearing riding breech style long trousers.

Cheers,

Mark

[KevinBattle]

As we seem to think that he is a Belgian (!!) soldier, whether that constitutes a fashion statement we'll leave to you and your Armed Forces to resolve!!

It would be typical uniform for a cavalryman, or a soldier involved with riding horses such as artillery supply.

Officers in the British army often wore jodphurs, but your guy doesn't look to be an officer.

Perhaps you can tell us what the uniform was for the Belgian 23rd Regiment (if that's what he is)?

[Greg]

One odd point about the picture is the Belgian soldier-in the sense that it is unlikely he would have had any official role to play at Buckingham Palace and I would have thought it unlikely that the King would pin on a foreign award.....maybe he was a driver, servant, or aide to a more senior Belgian officer being awarded a British decoration or indeed a 'tourist'.

Greg

[KevinBattle]

GregoryB: I think the general consensus from forum members is that it is NOT a BRITISH uniform!! As to whether there was an Englishman serving in the 23rd, well it's possible...

As the 23rd are still in existence and in the Ostend area, perhaps it could be useful to contact them for any other help they might have in their archives, especially if they could identify any rank and especially if any member (who had a Croix de Guerre) was posted to England around April 1918, perhaps as a military attache, or acting as an escort to your gg grandfather.

[Ghost]

Gregory,

Assuming that your Grandfather was From Belgium, did he have any brothers who may have accompanied him to the investiture as a guest?

Alan

[TD60new]

This for a commercial website but I do not intend to any publicity here.

http://www.schipperfabrik.com/Images/belg/belg_cap.jpg

just to show it looks similar to the one on the picture

For the Belgium Croix de guerre, it seems very close to that one.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/medal..._guerre_ww1.jpg

TD60

[Westdiep]

Hello Gregory,

I followed the topic with great interest and I found a similar Belgian RNR(T) Master of a fishing vessel Arsène Blondé.

The cap badge and the rank insignia are identical to those of your greatgrand father Richard Brouckxon DSC.

You will find more about Master Blondé and Brouckxon DSC on the website of the city Ostend.

http://www.oostende...._vs=0_n&id=3277

Regards, Jens.

[Westdiep]

strangely enough:

most people from Ostend i talked to about the picture,

thought the soldier was an englishman.

the 23rd is currently still based in Ostend and has a WWI and II memorial monument there.

Hello Gregory,

1) The 23rd Regiment of Line infantry does not longer exist, but indeed there is a monument in front of the officers mess (this is now part of the Naval base Bootsman Johnson and the bi national Mine warfare School).

2) The soldier next to your great-grandfather is Belgian, the khaki uniform was inspired by the British and US "fashion".

Regards, Jens.

[Westdiep]

You are welcome, Gregory.

I am wondering if it is still a coincidence that the peaked cap has also a Petty Officers cap badge. The rank insignia of Warrant Officer, the eight buttons are similar to your GGdad. I will ask more information about the WW1 RNR(T) section by my Navy connections in the Belgian Military Museum (Brussels).

To be continued... Jens.