Trying to track the flight of a "Zepp"

[Rockdoc]

On 24th November, 1917, a hostile dirigible flew to Salonika in the late evening. The most complete report comes from 73rd AA Section's Diary but there is a little added colour from 95th's and 99th's. Defense Contre Avions was the HQ for the aerial defence of Salonika, for which the French had overall responsibility. Its use was triggered when the threat was perceived as unusually high, such as an attack by an airship or by more than one or two planes together:

21:00 - Information was received from the French "Defense Contre Avions" that a dirigible had crossed the French lines & was taking a Westerly direction.

21:20 - G.H.Q. reported a hostile Zeppelin approaching SALONICA from the East.

21:43 - The French "Defense Contre Avions" reported a dirigible approaching SALONICA from the NW

21:43 - French 62 Section reports a Dirigible flying towards SALONIKA from NORTH-WEST

21:45 - "R" Gun detachment (Main Supply Depôt) heard and saw some type of aircraft believed to be a suspect dirigible approaching over the harbour making towards the South Ammunition Dump at an estimated height of 12000 feet (angle of sight 45°). It was picked up by the gun-layers and the order "Commence fire" was given. Seven rounds were fired and the target turned sharply South East and was lost, later being reported by the 95th AAS (LEMBET) as flying in a North-Easterly direction. Rounds expended:- 6 cwt HE 6 Shrap 1

21:45 - 73rd AA Section: KARAISSI gun now opened fire

21:47 - 73rd AA Section: The French have fired three rounds to notify the direction of dirigible

22:05 - Could be heard above our position.

23:04 - GHQ: Telegram reporting "ALL CLEAR"

There are several things about the record that intrigue me:

1. *Where were the airships based?

*Where were the French lines to the east of Salonika? I thought they were west of the Vardar by this time and the British to the east of it.

*Neither 98th AA Section at Guvesne nor 95th at Lembet report the airship on its approach but it must have circled round to come in from the NE and then from the NW but is first seen by the "R" gun over the harbour. Could it have come in over Lake Laganza, flown south of Daut-Bali - so well to the north of 73rd's "A" and "B" Guns and 99th's position - and turned south over the Vardar?

*The Main Supply Depot was at Karaissi, we learn from this episode. Where was the South Ammunition Dump?

*73rd's 'R' Gun, at Karaissi, could see the dirigible but 95th AA Section could only hear it. Presumably that means there were searchlights over the harbour?

*How agile were airships? I have the mental image that they were rather lumbering beasts but the report from 73rd says that it "turned sharply". How quickly could they manoeuvre, compared to an aeroplane of the period?

Keith

[centurion]

The nearest German airship base was at Yambol (sometimes spelt Jambol) in Bulgaria From there some extremely long range missions were flown including round trips to Naples and Alexandria. The ill fated flight East African relief flight that got as far as Khartoum, before being wireless spoofed to turn back, left from this base. BTW the airship reported in in the extracts quoted might not have been a Zeppelin as the Schutz Lange SL10 was operated by the German army from this base at the time (this was a similar type to the one that Leefe Robinson shot down over Greater London)

Airships could often climb much faster than the heavier than air aircraft of the time but in terms of turning - well compare an oil tanker to a jet ski. Speed would depend on which airship we're considering but could be anything from about 40 mph to 65 mph

[Martin Bennitt]

might it not have been L59, taking supplies to von Lettow-Vorbeck, which left Jambol on November 21, according to Wikipedia, and returned to base on the morning of November 25?

cheers Martin B

[centurion]

LZ104 (L59) flew back to Bulgaria passing over Turkey (which makes sense) so passing over Salonika might have been a detour (as well as tempting fate)? Looking at map - it doesn't make sense

[Rockdoc]

Thanks, both. I knew that Zeppelin had become common parlance, like Thermos or Hoover, but as it must have been very dark if not pitch black when she came over Salonika I doubt if they could have identified her any better. The AA Sections appear to have used "Zepp" as a type of message, possibly unidentified aircraft at night, as I've seen a couple of references to 'Zepp message' in the Diaries. It isn't because their use was all that common over Salonika as this is only the second occasion that year, the other being the previous March, when it was brought down.

Martin, I don't think this can have been the same airship you mention. She came in from the east or north east of Salonika and I would have expected a flight from Africa to have approached from a southerly direction. That aside, would they have put the extra weight of bombs on board a supply mission on the off-chance she could attack Salonika on the return trip?

Keith

[centurion]

Thanks, both. I knew that Zeppelin had become common parlance, like Thermos or Hoover, but as it must have been very dark if not pitch black when she came over Salonika I doubt if they could have identified her any better. The AA Sections appear to have used "Zepp" as a type of message, possibly unidentified aircraft at night, as I've seen a couple of references to 'Zepp message' in the Diaries. It isn't because their use was all that common over Salonika as this is only the second occasion that year, the other being the previous March, when it was brought down.

Martin, I don't think this can have been the same airship you mention. She came in from the east or north east of Salonika and I would have expected a flight from Africa to have approached from a southerly direction. That aside, would they have put the extra weight of bombs on board a supply mission on the off-chance she could attack Salonika on the return trip?

Keith

A return trip was not planned. The LZ 104 mission as planned was one way and the airship would have been cannibalised on arrival (fabric for tents, parts of the hull girders used for hut frames, wireless mast etc etc - all very ingenious). The main reason that there was fuel to spare for a round trip was that Von Letow also needed fuel. Bombs would have been useless, he had no aircraft.

LZ 104 experienced near disaster on the return trip due to severe air turbulence over Turkey (which is why I suggested being over Salonika would have been a detour!)

I suspect that the ship in question was probably SL 10

[apwright]

Except that SL 10 disappeared over the Black Sea on 28 July 1916 when raiding Sevastopol...

Adrian

[Rockdoc]

Thanks, Centurion. LZ104/L59 sounds an unlikely candidate but Wiki says that SL 10 was lost in July 1916 over Sevastopol. Do your sources say anything different?

Are there any obvious alternatives if we eliminate SL 10 and LZ 104?

Keith

[centurion]

Except that SL 10 disappeared over the Black Sea on 28 July 1916 when raiding Sevastopol...

Adrian

Funny I have sources saying it was based at Yambol in 1917

[centurion]

A couple of Bulgarian histories state that in late 1916 SL 10 was transferred to the Bulgarian forces and renamed Komanda being based at Yambol until the end of the war. Army airship LZ 101 was also based in Yambol but was stood down in September 1917 after the German Army relinquished airship operations in July 1917 to the Navy. LZ 104 was not based at Yambol but staged through there. This would seem to leave Komanda ex SL 10 as the candidate.

[Rockdoc]

What fascinates me about LZ 104 is that she was brand new yet was going to be scrapped had she reached von Lettow's troops. I can understand the concept of cannibalising a craft as a source of supplies but a new one? Were they so badly regarded by this time that they were almost seen as scrap before they flew?

Keith

[centurion]

Rather it shows how highly regarded was the German effort in East Africa. They'd been fighting since 1914 with no real supply, this was the last best chance to get supplies to them - worth sacrificing a super Zeppelin - which was the type with the best chance of getting through.

[Rockdoc]

A fascinating insight. Thanks.

Keith

[bob lembke]

Rather it shows how highly regarded was the German effort in East Africa. They'd been fighting since 1914 with no real supply, this was the last best chance to get supplies to them - worth sacrificing a super Zeppelin - which was the type with the best chance of getting through.

Not expert on Africa but I think that von Lettow-Vorbeck had 3000 Askeris and 300 European troops and at one time or another the Allies threw something like 250,000 troops at them. So keeping that theatre active was a valuable drain on Allied resources. The Germans did get a blockade-running ship through in 1916, and brought exactly one German soldier to serve in Africa, a heavy artillery officer, perhaps to officer the guns stripped from the German cruiser. Oddly enough, he also was at Gallipoli, attached to the volunteer pioneer company in which my father served in at Gallipoli. He got quite sick both at Gallipoli and in Africa, my father caught malaria at Gallipoli.Unhealthy places.

Bob Lembke

[Rockdoc]

It just shows that a small force with local knowledge can be a considerable thorn in the side of a larger one. As to malaria, although it is still a scourge, the strides taken since WW1 have made many areas safe- areas we today wouldn't associate with the problem but which wreaked havoc at the time.

Keith

[centurion]

It just shows that a small force with local knowledge can be a considerable thorn in the side of a larger one. As to malaria, although it is still a scourge, the strides taken since WW1 have made many areas safe- areas we today wouldn't associate with the problem but which wreaked havoc at the time.

Keith

At the risk of going off topic German colonial forces were faced with two choices a] defend the capital and the radio station there (the policy recommended by Berlin who thought 'it'll all be over by Christmas' or something like that and wanted to maintain Germany's communications network) or b] abandon the capital and defend the interior (the settler's choice). a] adopted in many colonies resulted in the campaign being very short and one sided whilst b] the East African approach tied down allied resources for a long time - merely maintaining a larger army in the field in Africa usual resulted in huge casualties through sickness.

The Allies also had a number of choices a] Grab the capital and destroy or take over the wireless mast and merely confine the German forces to the hinterland where disease would work against them (this was Churchill and the Navy's preferred option) b] Conquer the whole lot (a preferred French option also supported by S Africa and various British imperialists)

[Rockdoc]

A similar situation, in essence then, to the German attitude towards Salonika - the biggest internment camp possible for the Entente.

Keith