Map help.

[jonny956]

Dear all,

I am attempting to research the location of the award of the Victoria Cross awarded to Sgt FW Palmer, D Coy, 22nd Fusiliers (Kensingtons) on 17 Feb 1917. The attack he was involved in was launched by 2 Div/99 Inf Bde in an attempt to capture a feature called Hill 150 in front of the villages of Pys and Miramount, France. Could any kind sould please point me in the right direction as to where I might obtain a copy of the relavent mapping?

Thank you in advance

Jonny

[towisuk]

From the trench map package "Linesman" this is the area in front of Miraumont and Pys Jonny, but I don't know where Hill 150 is located. Maybe some other forum member might point us in the right direction.

regards

Tom

[towisuk]

I have seen mentioned that he won his VC for an action near Courcelette, so here's a larger map view which includes that ruined village Jonny

Tom

[Donald D]

Here is a section of a map taken from " The history of the 2nd Division by Everard Wyrall" which shows where D Company of the 22nd Royal Fusiliers was situated in the attack on the East Miraumont Road.

There is a map reference R12 C. 3 2, but I cannot find a suitable map from the McMaster Library file. Perhaps Towiskuk might be able to oblige.

[jonny956]

Thanks chaps. Looking at the contours, I realise that Hill 150 is in fact 'Hill 130'.

I understand that it was on the slopes of this insignificant feature, that the attack of 17 Feb 1917 faltered. It appears that D Coy 22nd Fusiliers were attached to 23rd Fusiliers for this operation. They went firm in their jumping off positions, 50 yards south of Post 12, but on the East side of East Miramount Road at 0115 hrs. Their task was to advance up the East side of East Miramount Road (along the dotted line shown above) in conjunction with 2 x Coys of 23rd Fusiliers. Once 23rd Fusiliers had secured Grandcourt Trench, D Coy would provide flank protection between the British front line and Grancourt Trench. From what I can make out, Sgt Palmer of the 'Kensingtons' made it to the uncut German wire in front of Grandcourt. He cut it under heavy and almost point blank machine gun fire and then broke into the German trench system with 6 other men. Here they formed a 'block'. They resisted half a dozen German counter attacks and at one point Sgt Palmer had to return to the British lines to obtain more bombs. When he returned, his small unit had been pushed back. He stabilised the situation and fended off more attacks. Due to other problems and constant German pressure, they were forced to retire. I really must visit there sometime.

Donald, is there anyway you could provide a pic of the area encompassing the British front line and Grandcourt Tr, please? Sorry to ask, but I would be most grateful.

[towisuk]

Here's R12 C, 3 2, Red flag indicates position mentioned...from "Linesman"

Tom

[jonny956]

Tom,

Very many thanks for that and for 'sharing' your subscription to Linesman. Am I right in assuming that the red crosses mark the line of the German wire? Last question; what is the scale of the map and what do the grid squares indicate it terms of distance (each mark = 50 yards/each grid = 500 yards?)? I am trying to get a feel for the size of the battlefield.

My soldiering experience is too modern and I am lost when talking about yards!!

Thanks in advance

Jonny

[towisuk]

The grid squares are 1000 yards x 1000 yards Jonny, and the flag I put on the map I posted corresponds with the map reference R12 C 3, 2. that Donald mentioned in his post.

regards

Tom

[Donald D]

This is a complete scan of the page from "The History of the 2nd Division". As you can see it also shows Hill 130 to the north of the jump off trenches occupied by the 99th Brigade. The map reference point R12 C. 3 2 is , I think, the easternmost point of the 99th brigade, which would have been where D coy of the 22nd RF would have been, as a defensive flank to the 23rd RF.

The first objective of the 99th Brigade was Grandcourt Trench from the East end of Boom Ravine to the East Miraumont Road.

The second objective was the South Miraumont Trench.

This is where Sgt Palmer, with his 6 men, would have earned his VC on Hill 130.

[jonny956]

Please accept my sincere thanks once again, gentlemen. Your assistance, so freely given, is invaluable.

Rgds

Jonny

[Guest John Stacey]

Please accept my sincere thanks once again, gentlemen. Your assistance, so freely given, is invaluable.

Rgds

Jonny

Hi Jonny,

I have just found your thread and think that I may be able to help. My Grandfather Pte K654 W J Fahey of 22nd RF was awarded the MM for an action in Feb 1917. From the enquiries I have made I think that the action may be connected with that where Sgt Palmer won the VC. Anyway I have spent days walking and photographing the ground around Miraumont and have quite a few photographs. This is my first post so if you can contact me I will gladly forward the photos and documents covering the action to you. Unfortunately I cannot find any details of how my grandfather was awarded the MM

Regards

John

[jonny956]

Hi Jonny,

I have just found your thread and think that I may be able to help. My Grandfather Pte K654 W J Fahey of 22nd RF was awarded the MM for an action in Feb 1917. From the enquiries I have made I think that the action may be connected with that where Sgt Palmer won the VC. Anyway I have spent days walking and photographing the ground around Miraumont and have quite a few photographs. This is my first post so if you can contact me I will gladly forward the photos and documents covering the action to you. Unfortunately I cannot find any details of how my grandfather was awarded the MM

Regards

John

John,

Apologies for the tardy response, but I have only just got back to Germany from an Exercise in the UK. I would very much like to see any pics that you have of the ground where the action took place and will send you what little I have in return. It appears that you can not receive PMs at the moment (I believe that you have to reach 5 as an anti phishing measure?), so email me at jonny956 AT hotmail.com (replacing AT with @).

ATB

Jonny