Medal Mounting

[findabetterole]

This is certainly one for our resident medal experts!

I would like to have mounted for a living history - Regimental No.1 Dress Uniform impression, a group of medals which are contempary to the Regiment that I portray, and period correct for my impressions persona of a Sgt-Maj.... joined the service in 1890, and still serving at the time of the Great War. All medals are display quality reproductions... or at least they will be when I've finally sourced them all! The medals in question are:-

1) Queen's Sudan Medal.

2) Khadives Sudan Medal.

3) Queen's South Africa Medal.

4) King's South Africa Medal.

5) George-V : [pre-1916] Long Service Good Conduct Medal

6) George-V : [post-1916 - Non-Gallentry] Meritorious Service Medal.

7) Edward-VII : 1902 Coronation Medal.

8) George-V : 1911 Coronation Medal.

The subject of medal prescedence eticate is a minefield, and even when contacting a couple of Medal Mounting Service sites... for cetain medals it's becoming a nightmare. This is the reason I've decided to contact our experts here... to find some form of common denominator/acceptable listing. By using the listing numbers of those medals above, this is my estmation (from information.. however confusing..) of how they should be arranged : 1), 3), 4), 7), 8), 6), 5), 2).

Am I as deep into the ice of the North Pole as one can possible get, or can I start sewing with confidence?

Seph

[Staffsyeoman]

This is certainly one for our resident medal experts!

I would like to have mounted for a living history - Regimental No.1 Dress Uniform impression, a group of medals which are contempary to the Regiment that I portray, and period correct for my impressions persona of a Sgt-Maj.... joined the service in 1890, and still serving at the time of the Great War. All medals are display quality reproductions... or at least they will be when I've finally sourced them all! The medals in question are:-

1) Queen's Sudan Medal.

2) Khadives Sudan Medal.

3) Queen's South Africa Medal.

4) King's South Africa Medal.

5) George-V : [pre-1916] Long Service Good Conduct Medal

6) George-V : [post-1916 - Non-Gallentry] Meritorious Service Medal.

7) Edward-VII : 1902 Coronation Medal.

8) George-V : 1911 Coronation Medal.

The subject of medal prescedence eticate is a minefield, and even when contacting a couple of Medal Mounting Service sites... for cetain medals it's becoming a nightmare. This is the reason I've decided to contact our experts here... to find some form of common denominator/acceptable listing. By using the listing numbers of those medals above, this is my estmation (from information.. however confusing..) of how they should be arranged : 1), 3), 4), 7), 8), 6), 5), 2).

Am I as deep into the ice of the North Pole as one can possible get, or can I start sewing with confidence?

Seph

Seph, I assume that as there is a post-1916 MSM in there you want to mount them as 1916 on. There is a reason for this. If so, they should be as follows, 1,3,4,7,8,6,5,2 - as you assume.

The MSM preceeds the LSGC; foreign awards follow all British awards in order of their award.

Were he pre-war, it would be: 7,8,1,3,4,6,5,2 - as the convention was that Royal commemorative medals were considered to be direct from the Sovereign and preceded campaign medals.

Another point; if you are displaying them as worn BEFORE April 1918, ensure that the LSGC has a plain crimson ribbon and the MSM is a crimson ribbon with white edges ONLY. The Army LSGC only acquired its (current) white edges and the MSM its central white stripe as well as edges when the Victoria Cross standardised on a crimson ribbon for all services after the formation of the RAF - and the blue ribbon for the RN/RNAS was dispensed with.

[Raldal]

I think that upto around 1971 the order of wear gave precedence to the LSGC over the MSM so if the group is to be shown as worn prior to 1971 the order should be 5 before 6

Ralph

[27thBN]

Seph, I assume that as there is a post-1916 MSM in there you want to mount them as 1916 on. There is a reason for this. If so, they should be as follows, 1,3,4,7,8,6,5,2 - as you assume.

The MSM preceeds the LSGC; foreign awards follow all British awards in order of their award.

Were he pre-war, it would be: 7,8,1,3,4,6,5,2 - as the convention was that Royal commemorative medals were considered to be direct from the Sovereign and preceded campaign medals.

Another point; if you are displaying them as worn BEFORE April 1918, ensure that the LSGC has a plain crimson ribbon and the MSM is a crimson ribbon with white edges ONLY. The Army LSGC only acquired its (current) white edges and the MSM its central white stripe as well as edges when the Victoria Cross standardised on a crimson ribbon for all services after the formation of the RAF - and the blue ribbon for the RN/RNAS was dispensed with.

Are you sure I thought it was 1917 that the central stripe was added to the MSM,and same with LSGC on the edges i have not got my yearbook in front of me to check

As to the coronation medals yes correct , i always could never work out why pre war they were in front of campaign medals !!

MC

[Philip Wilson]

The Fourth Edition of 'Ribbons and Medals' by Lieut.Commander Taprell Dorling, RN, published in November 1916, page 65 states that:

'In June 1916, the ribbon for the Army Long Service and Good Conduct and Meritorious Service Medals was altered from plain crimson to crimson with white edges. The new ribbon was taken into wear by all officers, warrant officers, N.C.O., and men in possesion of the medals who were then serving.

The old type of ribbon for the Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal prior to June 1916 was crimson.'

Alec Purves' book 'Collecting Medals and Decorations' - page 143 re the Army LS & GC Medal states:

'The change of ribbon in 1916, adding white edges to the plain crimson ribbon, meant that a group containing the medal including the (George V issue) to a recipient who died before 1916, should show the plain ribbon, while groups containing a Victorian or Edward V11 issue should have the modern ribbon if the recipient wore his medals after that date.'

As for the Army Meritorious Service Medal - on page 70 Purves states:

'Up to 1917 the MSM had the same ribbon as the Army LS & GC Medal ie plain crimson up to October 1916, and then crimson with white edges up to January 1917 - and then crimson with white edges up to January 1917 - and up to this date the M.S.M displaced the Long Service Medal, as both could not be worn. In January 1917, with the change in conditions already referred to, the central white stripe was added to the ribbon, and the medal could be worn with, but after, the LS & GC Medal.'

The Medal Yearbook provides clarification re the second type of MSM (crimson with white edges) which was introduced in October 1916 when immediate awards for exceptionally valuable and meritorious service were introduced. In January 1917 this was extended to include individual acts of gallantry not in the presence of the enemy.

I trust this clarifies matters.

Philip

[Raldal]

MSM Ribbon

upto 1916 - Crimson

1916-1917 Crimson with White edges

1917 onwards Crimson with Edge and Central White stripes

The Coronation/ Jubilee medals were regarded as a gift from the Monarch and as such took precedence over other medals

[lfstraggler]

The general periods (i.e. year & month) for the changes discussed in this thread would seem to be know - but are there any specific orders that detail the changes in ribbon order (i.e. QSA before the George VII Coronation Medal

vs. the reverse)?

Same for the changes to the LS&GG and MSM ribbons.

Or is it more that the information in publications such as Dress Regulations For the Army simply show/list the change?

John S. Harmon