MelPack Posted 12 January , 2010 Share Posted 12 January , 2010 Announcement just placed on the CWGC Fromelles site: Reburials of soldiers killed in the Battle of Fromelles 19 July 1916 at Fromelles (Pheasant Wood) Military Cemetery 30 January 2010 to February 2010 At 11:00 am on 30 January 2010, the ceremony to rebury the first of the 250 Australian and British soldiers recovered from Pheasant Wood will commence at the new Fromelles (Pheasant Wood) Military Cemetery, which is currently under construction by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Although the ceremony will start at 11:00 am, members of the public who wish to attend are advised to arrive in good time as administrative arrangements for the management of traffic and crowds will be in place for the day and these will have an impact on access to the village of Fromelles. Fromelles is a small village and facilities there are limited. Attendees should also note that there will be no covered viewing areas and the weather in northern Europe at this time of year can be unpredictable. You are encouraged to prepare for very cold and wet weather and dress accordingly. Although the ceremony is open to the public, access to the cemetery itself will be restricted because it is not yet complete – horticultural work will takeplace later The Ceremony The first soldier will be buried with military honours on 30 January in the presence of the people of Fromelles and dignitaries from Australia, The United Kingdom and France. A large number of media are also expected to attend. The ceremony will start promptly at 11:00 am and conclude between 12:00 and 12:30 pm. Proceedings can be viewed from a public viewing area. PLEASE NOTE ALL TIMES ARE LOCAL The reburials of the remaining soldiers, which will be carried out in exactly the same way, will then continue throughout February (weather permitting) on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays starting at 9:00 am each day. Each reburial will take the form of a standard military funeral, with hearse, bearer party and padre in attendance. A "contemplation" area will be provided at the cemetery boundary where visitors can access information about the Fromelles operation and sign a Book of Remembrance. A designated area will also be made available for the laying of tributes. The last soldier's remains will be buried at the final commemorative event and dedication of the new cemetery on 19 July 2010 – the 94th anniversary of the Battle of Fromelles. Details of this event will be published in due course. Reburials Throughout February As stated above, reburials will continue throughout February on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays starting on Monday 1 February at 9:00 am. Visitors wishing to observe the reburials may wish to consider coming in February, as the event on 30 January will be very busy. Members of the public will be able to attend these events. Although restrictions on access to the cemetery will remain in place, the public viewing area will remain and the contemplation area will also be open. Updates and weather forecasts for the area will be provided from this site and members of the public are advised to check these pages regularly before making travel arrangements in case adverse conditions postpone planned events.http://www.cwgc.org/fromelles/?page=englis...view/news120110 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 13 January , 2010 Share Posted 13 January , 2010 Thanks for that Mel. I received an email from the AFPG announcing the same thing. I wonder if these initial burials with temporary headstones will provide details of nationality. If they do, I suppose someone will have to go around and count the different ones so we can establish some kind of nationality breakdown. The last word from the authorities I saw when asked about the approximate number of British and Australian was that they "couldn't divulge confidential information". For the life of me, I'm at a loss to explain what could possibly be so 'confidential' about the figures to cause them to be guarded like a state secret!! All I want to know is approximately how many more names of Australians I need to be looking for beyond the 191 on the working list? It's a fairly innocuous question I would've thought and I don't know what possible harm could be caused by providing an answer. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 22 January , 2010 Share Posted 22 January , 2010 Following the first burial on 30th January, there will be further burials three days per week. If they plan to bury all 250 during February that is 20+ per day, unless I have missed something ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 22 January , 2010 Share Posted 22 January , 2010 Yep, Peter. That's how it was explained to me. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carol@kettle.org.uk Posted 22 January , 2010 Share Posted 22 January , 2010 Does anybody know if they have been able to identify any of the remains? I am interested because one of them could be a very distant ancestor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarge2871 Posted 22 January , 2010 Share Posted 22 January , 2010 None as yet Carrol, it may be some time before we hear anything, although some are saying there may be some named before July. We shall see Kindest regards Colin Cpl Gregory Francis Stalgis 14th Machine gun Co KIA 19th July 1916 Fromelles France Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 Carol, From what I've heard (and don't quote me on this), a large proportion of the 250 remains recovered from the mass graves yielded useable DNA. The identification committee will be assessing all the evidence (including DNA comparisons) for each individual and the results should be made public sometime in March. It is planned that all those who can be given an ID will have a named headstone by the time of the dedication service on July 19. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 May They Rest In Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 Lets hope even at least one of the men is identified This wouldn't have been possible even 10 years ago Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 Liam, I am quietly confident that quite a few will be identified. Don't ask me why I think that, it's more of a gut feeling than anything else. I'm not one prone to being superstitious but throughout our research into the Australians, some quite odd coincidences have occured at times that were vital to our work and usually lead us to discovering important facts or locating descendants. If you ask Sandra, she'll tell you that it's the men themselves making sure that they are given every chance to be identified. I sometimes wonder if she might actually be right...??? Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 23 January , 2010 Share Posted 23 January , 2010 I will certainly try to get across in February so as to be able to do a "before and after". I agree that if many useable DNA samples have been secured from the remains, a decent number of positive IDs should result. I do so much look forward to visiting this new cemetery a few years from now when it becomes "just another CWGC cemetery". We will all be able to be justly proud of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel knockaert Posted 30 January , 2010 Share Posted 30 January , 2010 First burial today at Fromelles "Phaesant Wood" cemetery very moving ceremony... Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkA Posted 30 January , 2010 Share Posted 30 January , 2010 Interesting article here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8473444.stm including pictures of some of the truly heart breaking artifacts that turned up during the dig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 30 January , 2010 Share Posted 30 January , 2010 After spending the last three years or more working on the history of the AIF Fromelles lads I have to admit to finding myself extremely emotional during this video. Lest We Forget! Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 31 January , 2010 Share Posted 31 January , 2010 This was emailed to me overnight W. Australia time. Minister for Defence Media Mail List ------------------------------------------------------------------------ THE HON. GREG COMBET MP Minister for Defence Personnel, Materiel and Science THE HON. ALAN GRIFFIN MP Minister for Veterans' Affairs Sunday, 31 January 2010 012/2010 BURIAL OF FROMELLES SOLDIERS BEGINS Ninety-three years after they fell in the Battle of Fromelles, the first of 250 Australian and British soldiers have finally been buried with full military honours at a ceremony in France. On the first day of burials for the Australian and British soldiers recovered last year from Fromelles, the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, Alan Griffin, and Minister for Defence Personnel, Material and Science, Greg Combet, encouraged the Australian public to pause and reflect on the sacrifices of those who serve in the Armed Forces. "These men have not been forgotten and today marks the start of the solemn duty of finally laying them to rest", said Mr Griffin. "The discovery of these men, so long after World War One, provides new generations of Australians with an opportunity to honour their service." The soldiers are being buried in individual graves in the purpose-built Fromelles (Pheasant Wood) Military Cemetery. Mr Griffin said the new cemetery is the first full cemetery the Commonwealth War Graves Commission has constructed in more than 50 years. The burials will occur throughout February and be conducted by members of both the British and Australian Armies. A commemorative event to open the cemetery is scheduled for the 94th anniversary of the Battle of Fromelles on 19 July 2010. Mr Combet said the Government was hopeful that anthropological, archaeological, historical and DNA information will lead to the identification of some of the men. "While identification of the remains is an extremely complex process I remain hopeful that we will be able to identify a number of those that we have found," said Mr Combet. The battle on 19 July 1916 was the bloodiest 24 hours in Australian history with 5,533 Australian soldiers killed, wounded or missing. Media contacts: Rod Hilton (Greg Combet): 02 6277 7620 or 0458 276 619 Darren Loasby (Alan Griffin) 0421 246 246 Defence Media Liaison: 02 6127 1999 or 0408 498 664 www.defence.gov.au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 31 January , 2010 Share Posted 31 January , 2010 After spending the last three years or more working on the history of the AIF Fromelles lads I have to admit to finding myself extremely emotional during this video. Lest We Forget! Sandra I will be thinking of Tim and you on the 10th. I will be taking plenty of tissues............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 31 January , 2010 Share Posted 31 January , 2010 Thanks Peter. Both Sandra and I would've dearly liked to attend but the trip from the other side of the globe was out of our reach at the present time. At least we were glad to know that others like you, who think as we do about these men, were prepared to represent us in spirit. A grateful thanks also to Victoria who put together a small posy of rosemany sprigs with some green and gold ribbon and attached a card from Sandra and I. It meant a great deal to both of us. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verrico2009 Posted 31 January , 2010 Share Posted 31 January , 2010 If you ask Sandra, she'll tell you that it's the men themselves making sure that they are given every chance to be identified. I sometimes wonder if she might actually be right...??? I've never doubted it! Great to see this come to fruition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 31 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2010 Tim Thanks for sorting out the ambiguity in the press report on Breuget. I do not know how much store can be placed in this report which is apparently a direct quote from Dr Jones: POSITIVE DNA results have raised hopes of identifying the remains of many of the 250 Australian and British World War I soldiers found in France. As reburials get into full swing at a new military cemetery in the village of Fromelles, experts are upbeat about identifying soldiers' remains. Viable DNA has been extracted from the teeth of all of the men, with identification now resting largely on the ability to find matches with descendants. "We've got some really nice results from all of them," [my emphasis] DNA specialist Dr Peter Jones said. Descendants have been found for about half of the soldiers. From today, up to 30 soldiers a day are being buried with military honours. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/...6-1225825224901 Peter Jones strikes me as being one of the most able people involved in the project. If that is a direct and accurate quote then it looks vey promising indeed. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 31 January , 2010 Share Posted 31 January , 2010 Hi Mel, Yes it was a shame about the Breguet news but didn't think the inference was correct. The comments by Dr Peter Jones coincide with what I have been told although my report varied slightly. I was informed that the extraction of DNA from the teeth wasn't as sucessful as hoped but when they turned to other bones things improved dramatically. My source revealed to me that viable DNA was extracted from 'almost' all of the remains which basically agrees with Dr Jones. Again it depends on how you read the inference of Dr Jones' comment. Does he mean that out of all the remains some nice results were obtained (note the use of the word 'some' inferring not all) or does it means that all the remains yielded results? Either way it appears there's been a great result and that many of these men now have a fighting chance for identification. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 31 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2010 Tim I guess it is all a bit like reading the future from the entrails of a chicken. In this article, Peter Jones confirms that the vascular pulp from the teeth was the best source ( may be you informant accidentally transposed the information?): The remains extracted from Fromelle's muddy burial pits have produced small but workable amounts of DNA, says Dr Jones. The teeth, which preserve well because they are encased in enamel, give by far the best samples. "The hardest part is finding the right families and getting them to come forward... you can have good DNA profiles, but no family to match it up to." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8473444.stm Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender02 Posted 1 February , 2010 Share Posted 1 February , 2010 Hello, Please find videos of the ceremony, in three parts, that I made last saturday : Olivier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 1 February , 2010 Share Posted 1 February , 2010 From Yesterday's 'Sunday Telegraph' (31/01/10) Click The Times Click and from the UK MOD 'Defence News' Click EDIT: NB note link to 'Defence News Imagery website' - Photographs of the ceremony are not available yet (1st Feb), but some of the finds made are. NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 1 February , 2010 Share Posted 1 February , 2010 The images of the ceremony are now available on the 'Defence News Imagery website' (see previous post and the link to the MOD Defence News) NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now