CanterburyTom Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 Hi all, I have been researching my great grandfather's involvement in WW1 on-and-off for several years but have not made much progress as he had a common surname (Smith) and there are no surviving medals etc. to reveal his regiment and service number. To make things more difficult I am also unsure whether he signed up under his full name (William Bert Smith) or simply used 'Bert' as he was always known. He was from Reading, Berkshire, and worked with horses before the war. I do however possess these photographs (see below) and some handed down knowledge: 1. I think he served in a mounted unit (cavalry/yeomanry) 2. He was posted to Gallipoli and arrived, but apparently his unit never disembarked from the ship 3. He served in Egypt and went to Cairo (see note on photo) I have searched through endless badges in an attempt to identify the regiment he was with but remain stumped! The cap badge in one photo appears to differ from the shoulder badge in another - does this suggest that he changed regiments? I would be very grateful if anyone could help any further with identification! (Unfortunately I am not in possession of any higher quality scans) Many thanks, Tom (Seated) (Standing, left) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanterburyTom Posted 6 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 6 January , 2010 (Rear row, first on left) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 Tom, nice pics, the 1st looks like he may be wearing a territorial artillery shoulder title possibly T/RFA/STAFFORD. Looking at the photos I would say that he may have served post war in a cavalry/yeomanry unit and then Great War service with an artillery unit. A closer look at the insignia from the pics would help and have you searched for an Absent Voters List for the area from where Bert lived? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 Tom, Agreed, very nice pics. Hope you don't mind - I had a go (a bit amateurish) at cleaning up the portrait. If it is the only image you have I think a good digital restoration (by a pro.) would be possible on this particular picture. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanterburyTom Posted 6 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 6 January , 2010 Tom, Agreed, very nice pics. Hope you don't mind - I had a go (a bit amateurish) at cleaning up the portrait. If it is the only image you have I think a good digital restoration (by a pro.) would be possible on this particular picture. Chris Chris, Thank you very much for taking the time to clean up the portrait - it looks fantastic! Great job. Cheers, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanterburyTom Posted 6 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 6 January , 2010 Tom, nice pics, the 1st looks like he may be wearing a territorial artillery shoulder title possibly T/RFA/STAFFORD. Looking at the photos I would say that he may have served post war in a cavalry/yeomanry unit and then Great War service with an artillery unit. A closer look at the insignia from the pics would help and have you searched for an Absent Voters List for the area from where Bert lived? Jon Jon, Thanks so much for your suggestions - I had never realised that RFA uniforms were so similar to yeomanry uniforms - definitely a new avenue to explore. I have not yet looked at Absent Voters Lists, but a quick Google reveals that the British Library should hold copies of all in existence (?), and I live just round the corner from it so I'll have a search when I get back to London. I have enlarged the images that show his cap and shoulder badges, and adjusted the contrast to make them clearer. I also forgot to mention that another photograph that I have examined in person (very similar to the one taken in Cairo) is dated 5th March 1917, which suggests that he may have been in Egypt at this time. Cheers, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 Looks like Army Service Corps to me and the title is T/ASC/? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 I agree, Paul - it is not an RFA badge. It could be ASC, but I have a feeling he is Berkshire Yeomanry. His footwear suggests being mounted, and the badge, if you squint, could be right. The regiment's history kind of fits the story too. But there's no Wlliam Bert, William B, Bert or any other variation in the medal index cards shown with overseas service with the regiment. What does a Berks Yeomanry shoulder title look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 In the photo of the four chaps (one sitting, three standing), the chap far left looks like he has an RA badge, and at least two others have what looks like ASC badges. Can't see a Berks Yeo badge. Westlake gives the Berks Yeo title as T/Y/Berks, or just Y/Berks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 There is a William A (possibly Albert? ) Smith Essex Yeomanry 2538, 81171, ( x395939 )? Essex Yeomanry cap badge Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 I too believe the title to be T/ASC/?, which you should be able to work out as not too many T.F. units went to the Middle East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 6 January , 2010 Share Posted 6 January , 2010 I'll concede to the ASC, but I'm still convinced that the lower section of the title begins with an 'S' which may suggest that it could be T/ASC/S.WESTERN which would be the 1st and 2nd South Western Mounted Bde. transport and supply columns and the 2nd SWM Bde did sail for Gallipoli during September 1915 and arrived in Egypt during December. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanterburyTom Posted 6 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 6 January , 2010 Thank you very much to everyone for taking the time to reply and for your advice - it is certainly much appreciated! I agree that the shoulder badge does appear to be T/ASC/--- which gives me a new lead which I am looking forward to following up. Jon, I am inclined to think you are right about his place in the 2nd Western Mounted Brigade, as this was where I had tentatively placed him as a result of some of my reading on Gallipoli - hopefully I will be able to make some more headway with some archival research. Cheers, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 7 January , 2010 Share Posted 7 January , 2010 If the shoulder title was t/ ASC, then that would be it. The half round section indicates a county title, did ASC have county names on there shoulder titles? I have not heard of such. There is a post on the forum within the last week or so describing one unit which went to Gallipoli, but due to uniform irregularities (wrong dress) the unit did not disembark and was redirected to Egypt instead. This would fit in with what Tom wrote in his first post. Can't remember what the topic was called though, and it's time for bed. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanterburyTom Posted 7 January , 2010 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2010 If the shoulder title was t/ ASC, then that would be it. The half round section indicates a county title, did ASC have county names on there shoulder titles? I have not heard of such. There is a post on the forum within the last week or so describing one unit which went to Gallipoli, but due to uniform irregularities (wrong dress) the unit did not disembark and was redirected to Egypt instead. This would fit in with what Tom wrote in his first post. Can't remember what the topic was called though, and it's time for bed. Alan Alan, Thanks for the heads up - I'll do some digging! Cheers, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 7 January , 2010 Share Posted 7 January , 2010 I don't the standard work on shoulder titles at hand (Ray Westlake's 'Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles') but I don;t think there was a T/RFA/STAFFORD (or a T/ASC/STAFFORD either). On current evidence I agree that he is ASC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 8 January , 2010 Share Posted 8 January , 2010 I don't the standard work on shoulder titles at hand (Ray Westlake's 'Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles') but I don;t think there was a T/RFA/STAFFORD (or a T/ASC/STAFFORD either). On current evidence I agree that he is ASC. He does not record a T/ASC/Stafford; but there is a T/RFA/Stafford. That said, ASC was my first thought too. Best wishes, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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