Great Was words and phrases still in use today...

[Frank_East]

"Swinging the Lead"

I thought this expression was used by Mark Twain (Samuel Langhorne Clemens) relating to his experiences on the Mississippi steamboats as a young boy.

The job of depth sounding was usually given to a young boy,stationed on the bow who used a rope attached to a lead weight which was thrown in the water at regular intervals,the depth of water determined ,the rope pulled out of the water and the depth reading shouted out to the bridge Wheelman by the boy.The frequency was repetitive,boring and did involve continuous effort from the boy.

A malpractice which was adopted by the boys was to swing the lead weight as though depth sounding was being done but not allow it to enter the water,retrieve the rope and shout out a favourable reading to the Wheelman.This was alright until the boat bottomed and the boy was found lacking in his duty. Hence the expression "Swinging the Lead". here and applied later to those who deliberately failed to discharge their duty.

Nothing to do with The Great War.In my time it was known as "skiving"

I do remember my uncles who served in The Great War using the expression "holed up" quite frequently and I was led to believe it referred initially to a dugout or perhaps a shell hole which would have given some immediate shelter from any onslaught

Regards

Frank East

[Tim Birch]

Here are a few more:-

"When the balloon goes up" - Observation balloons going up usualy preceded an artillery barage.

"Brassed off" - From the monotony of cleaning brass buckles etc

"Hit the deck"- From RNAS expression of a plane landing

"Dim" - From the expression "He's as dim as a Toch-H candle"

"To be in a flat spin" - RFC origin - many aircraft crashed whilst their pilots tried everything in a mad panic to try and recover from a spin

"Gremlins" - WW1 RNAS word for mythical beings which made things go wrong

"Jammy" - Great War slang for something that was easy

"On the mat" - from Great War. The accused stood on a mat in front of the CO when up on a Charge.

"His number was up" - From the belief that if an enemy bullet had your service number on it there was nothing you could do about it.

"To cop it" from "to cop a packet" - Great War expression to be wounded or killed

"Sparks" - Electician. Great War Royal Navy slang. Also Radio Operator.

"To stick your neck out" - to look over the parapet

Tim

[Stuart Brown]

Bumf....Toilet paper or newspaper used for that purpose. Short for bum-fodder.

[Cliff. Hobson]

Having passed through Doelali on the way further east the affliction to soldiers who got a touch of the sun was known as Doolali Tap. With regard to Dhobi it was the term used for washing clothes this was done by the lower caste of natives employed by a Contractor the method used was to dip the article in the river and bash it against a convenient rock accompanied by a rhythmic chant. Whilst enquiring from the Contractor about a lost article I asked him what the Dhobi Wallahs were chanting. His reply was " White man ******* Black man King"

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Another expression came to when yelling at the cat this afternoon: Pipsqeak as in Pip, Sqeak and Wilfred aka a British trio of campaign medals.

Ian

[Sue Light]

Ian

Despite the fact that there may well have been several men in the trenches named Pip and Wilfred [not so sure about Squeak], the medals were actually 'named' after cartoon strip characters of the time - Pip the penguin, Squeak the rabbit and Wilfred the dog [no cats!]

Regards - Sue

[Terry_Reeves]

Pip Squeak and Wilfred were cartoon characters which first appeared in the Daily Mirror in (I think) 1919.

One publication that may be of interest is "Songs and Slang of the British Soldier 1914-1918", 1931, by John Brophy and Eric Partridge. Partridge was was a noted lexicographer. Born in New Zealand in 1894, he served as an infantryman in the AIF during WW1. A revised edition of the book, entitled "The British Soldiers Song and Slang in the Great War of 1914-1918" was published by Andre Deutch in 1965. The former was published in a limited edition and is difficult to find and some of the words come straight from the shoulder.

Incidentally the word "chatting" probably pre-dates WW1 by over a century. It appears to derive from an Anglo-Indian colloquilism "chatty" which meant a filthy man and amongst nineteeth-century sailors meant a seaman who was dirty or sloppy. It is worth remembering that many of the regular army soldiers of WW1 came to serve on the Western Front from many parts of the empire and brought with them anglicized versions of words from the Near East and Far East. The tradition of personalising foreign words and phrases, or simply making up their own, continued in France and Flanders.

Terry Reeves

[ianw]

Yes, there are many tales of regulars arriving in France or Belgium and being bemused when the locals did not respond as expected to being harangued in Anglo-Hindustani !

[Bernard_Lewis]

Most of us will have some knowledge of modern police/military radio comms - Foxtrot for F, Tango for T etc to avoid mix ups in transmission/interpretation. During the Great War my understanding is that A wasn't the now familiar Alpha but actually Ack; giving rise to anti-aircraft being Ack-Ack.

Bernard Lewis

[CROONAERT]

Bernard's post reminds me of another word that came into common usage (and is still encountered today)dating from WW1,this time from the German side.This is the German initials for "Ack-Ack"......Flak.

Dave.

[Tim Birch]

Anti-Aircraft fire has gone through quite a few abreviations during and since WW1:-

"AA" or "Ack-Ack"; "Archie"; "Flak" (WW2 from Fliegerabwehrkanone); "AAA" or "Tripal A"

But it is the word flak or flack which has now moved firmly into our language, particularly in business jargon

Another WW1 expression which quickly moved into common usage was "Strafe". By the end of 1917 Dunn is making reference in his diary (The War the Infantry Knew) to his CO being strafed by the GOC for something which had displeased him.

Tim

[Mark Hone]

Some service jargon does mutate rapidly while other bits survive for decades. You still hear 'shufti' or even 'dekko' in the army today but the standard phrase for a shall we say 'rotund' soldier seems to have changed in the last couple of years from 'pie man' to 'salad refuser'. W. E. Johns got a lot of stick for using WWI era slang like 'Archie'when he wrote his first few Biggles stories set in the Second World War. He had to go on a quick refresher course on 'current' RAF slang.

I remember reading that soldiers coming out to France who had been trained in the UK by Boer War veterans tended to refer to 'veldt' and 'kops' when describing certain geographical features. Is this apocryphal?

A surprisingly common term of approbation today is 'He'd be a good man to have with you in the trenches'

[Geoff Parker]

Terry

Sorry but I'm not convinced that the expression "Give it the full nine yards"

is related to the MGC. I know that this expression was quoted as being so in the BBC TimeWatch documentary a couple of weeks ago. But a Vickers belt is only a little over 5 yards long, nowhere near 9 yards, so why who they invent such an expression. I asked a friend about this and he said he'd heard the expression but was under the impression it originated in the USA.

If someone can prove otherwise I'd be glad to know.

Geoff

[Fabiansson]

The use of “Word” War (instead of the “Great” War) became popular not during the war but after the war, at least in Britain and France. In USA and Germany it was used very early in the war.

Today people talk about the “First” and “Second” Gulf War. The use of First and Second in this context begun rather late during WW2, and was not used officially until Churchill published his memoirs and the Official History of the WW2 was published.

All according to a very interesting article in the current issue of Journal of Contemporary History (Vol. 38, No. 1, 2003) by David Reynolds: “The Origins of the Two 'World Wars': Historical Discourse and International Politics “.

/nils

[Dawson]

When my friends and I are having a couple of shandies In

our local and the cigarettes are passed around, none of us want the third light as it is deemed unlucky.

It has been said that it derives from the trenches.

First light. the siper spots you ,the second light he sets his sight, and the bloke with the third light unfortunately

cops it.

Ian.

[CROONAERT]

Ian.

There has been much debate on the origins of the "3rd light" superstition,including a recent radio program. The earliest origin that I have seen/heard proof of is the Boer War (my Great-Grandad used this superstition very regularly up to the end of his life.He didn't fight in WW1,but was in South Africa 1899-1902).

I've heard,but cannot substasiate,that the origins actually go all the way back to the American War of Independance.

Dave.

[Frank_East]

Let us not forget the word "Bullshit" an expression that has described the many facets of the British Military.

Bullshit,yes we remember you well,we who were baffled by you.

It is said to be have first used by the members of the AIF when they first came across the spit and polish of the British Army.Being an army of citizens I don't suppose they envied the British Army rigid practices.

What about "line shooting".Did this phrase creep into the RAF at the latter end of The Great War or was it in use during the RFC. It certainly became associated with the RAF during WW2 but it may have first been used in the post Great War RAF messes from "army types"ex RFC who were the cornerstone of Trenchard's infant Royal Air Force.

Regards

Frank East

[Glenn]

I've just skimmed through the above text and haven't yet seen

to 'shoot yourself in the foot'

Regards,

Glenn

[maurice davis]

Ive just found another saying that has survived like glory hole but this one was cubby hole and meant the same thing and how about going mufti meaning civilian clothes from Arabic meaning free.

for anybody who has ever played Bingo No9 doctors orders comes from The British Army`s No9 which was a laxative pill (guaranteed to get you on the move)

regards

Maurice

[CROONAERT]

As an addenda to the "3rd light" superstition.

A few years ago ,I was talking to an "old boy" who had happened to be a "part-time" sniper in the Wehrmacht in Russia between 1942 and 1944. I asked him whether he,in the German army ,had ever heard of this superstition and what he thought. His answer was very blunt - "any decent sniper would get all 3!!!".

On pressing this question, he explained that "only an inexpierienced soldier would dream of lighting a cigarette in an uncovered position,especially with 2 comrades around him. For this reason, a good sniper would react,aim and fire on the first light,his two inexpierienced comrades,instead of diving for cover, would stay and maybe bend over their fallen friend.Within the next couple of seconds,they,too, would be "despatched"."

Dave

[Dawson]

Well thanks for clearing the third light theory,

i can now enjoy my pint and fag (cigarettes for our u.s friends) in relative safety.

Thanks

Ian.

[182 CEF]

I am watching some of the explainations for terms on this thread. I think a couple are incorrect.

I know "Glory Hole" was used long before WW1. Gold miners used this term in the US during the gold rush in the 1840's- 50's

The Whole Nine Yards refers to the amount of ammo carried in Mustang Fighters in WW2

The term " Back to the Trenches" was used during the US Civil War. I have read this term in referance to the siege of Petersburg Va. For almost a full year both Armies were facing each other in Trenches in depth as well as in earthen forts.

In a letter written by a Soldier I have seen the term "Saps" used, also the term "bomb proofs".

On an interesting note, the Federals used wire strung low to trip attacking soldiers. This was not barbed wire, just signal wire.

The Federals also dug a tunnel over 500 feet long ( considered impossible by many) under the Confederate lines and blew a Confederate fort into a massive crater.

Dean Owen

Whitby Canada

[Tim Birch]

Dean

Saps were used during the Middle Ages, and probably even earlier by the Romans as a means of getting close to a castle during a siege. Mining was used as a method of weakening ramparts and walls.

During the Napoleanic Wars the term Sappers was used to describe the Engineers who undertook this work, as todays Royal Engineers are known.

Tim

[CROONAERT]

Well thanks for clearing the third light theory,

i can now enjoy my pint and fag (cigarettes for our u.s friends) in relative safety.

Thanks

Ian.

So long as you light your fag whilst lying on the floor underneath the table,with at least two people between you and the window that is ,Ian !!!!!

Dave.