Sudanese deserters

[michaeldr]

[from British military intelligence in the Palestine campaign, 1914-1918 by Dr. Yigal Sheffy]

"...the Egyptian army founded the mounted Camel Corps in 1907, with one company each for the Sudan and Sinai. The one hundred Sudanese recruited for Sinai were tasked to move about freely in the desert to glean information; to police and patrol the border; to man advance warning stations at important crossroads such as Rafah, al-Qussaima and Kuntila as well as rear posts at al-Nakhl, al-'Arish and Bir Hassana; to create a netweork of informants; to map the peninsula.

By 1910, the corps had become a major instrument for surveying the territory of northern Sinai and for continuous border reconnaissance.............But as time passed and the memory of the Taba affair dimmed, diligence in nurturing the Camel Corps declined, and by 1911 the governor of Sinai could field only 25 Egyptian soldiers and 130 corps police, only half of them mounted."

Was it from the remnants of this corps that the Turks recruited their Sudanese guides in 1915? Any further info here would be welcome

A very Happy New Year to one and all

Michael

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

I surpose we should not forget the relegious call to arms by the Turks.

Could this man be a deserter due to his religion or an ex POW taken in Sinai who for better treatment joined the Turks much like a number of Indian Troops did in Malaya in 1942 and Indian nationalisum or a number of British soldiers POW's who joined the SS to fight the Russians.

I surpose after all this time we may never know for sure. But good propergander.

S.B

[michaeldr]

Steve,

Thanks for your thoughts on this

Although the captions here are not always to be relied upon, this one does suggest more than one deserter

While the riders on the right look to me to be Turkish (or even German)

what about those on the left? Are they Sudanese 'other ranks' with their senior NCO out front?

All the best

Michael

[bushfighter]

Michael

Interestingly I am presently writing an article about the 1915 actions.

My view is that the "Sudanese guides" were ex-Egyptian Coastguards.

(See Official History page 20 first paragraph).

Regards Harry

[rmcguirk]

Michael

Interestingly I am presently writing an article about the 1915 actions.

My view is that the "Sudanese guides" were ex-Egyptian Coastguards.

(See Official History page 20 first paragraph).

Regards Harry

Michael,

What an interesting photo! May I ask where you found it?

Bushfighter is certainly correct that the Sudanese in the photo are deserters from the Egyptian Coastguard Administration. On November 19, 1914 a detachments of 20 coastguards deserted at Bir al-Nuss in the N of Sinai. Coastguard NCOs and men were nearly all Sudanese, and they generally got along very well with the British, which is why they were chosen. But that very month the Caliph in Constantinople had declared Holy War, which put the them on the spot as they patrolled Sinai. Then, on the above day, 40 Bikanirs, commanded by one Captain Chope, arrived at Bir al-Nuss. Chope apparently ordered the coastguards to camp 300 years away from the Bikanir camp, and it may be that the latter were insulted by Chope’s manner. At any rate, the next morning the coastguards had disappeared.

Note the plume on the forward man’s fez; also the white Bisharin camels – these alone identify the half dozen men to left as coastguards; the men to the right appear to be Turks (or, as you say, Germans).

Regards,

Russell

[rmcguirk]

Mate,

I surpose we should not forget the relegious call to arms by the Turks.

S.B

Apologies, Steve, for making the same point. I missed your post on my first skimming.

Russell

[michaeldr]

Harry & Russell,

Thanks to you both for your helpful replies and the extra information re the Coastguard uniform and their camels. As a layman in camel matters, I had not spotted the difference until it was pointed out. [Looking at Appendix C of Sir Archibald Murray's Despatches, I see that he identifies at least eight different sorts - Delta heavy, Somali, Upper Egypt, Egyptian female, Sudan, Western desert, Indian, and Algerian camels – and that just covers the CTC's animals.]

The photograph comes from the Matson Collection at the Library of Congress (USA) see http://memory.loc.gov/phpdata/pageturner.p...&item=13709

The photograph in the first post above, is number 14

At this stage (1915) the USA was still neutral, however there was an American medical team with the Turkish forces. This may well have been supplied by the American Colony living in Jerusalem at the time, and their photographer could also have been one of this party. Have a look at photographs Nos. 25 & 27 to see Dr. Ward and some of his team. Also note photograph No.26 where the American and Turkish flags fly together in the background

Harry, I hope that the GWF will get to see your article when it is published

All the best

Michael

[rmcguirk]

Michael,

Thank you for the photo details. That’s a fascinating collection.

There were also major CG desertions in the Western Desert in late 1915. Reading the War Diaries for the Sanusi campaign, I have gathered that one RFC observer (formerly CG Camel Corps) from above could easily identify the distinctive white CG camels on the Sanusi side of the lines.

Further to my comments on the Chope incident, I should perhaps have mentioned that after the CG desertions his detachment was attacked in the Sinai got mauled. GOC Egypt Maxwell then wired Kitchener (24 Nov 1914) to say that he was giving the CG’s camels to the Bikanirs. (The deserters were not involved in the attack, however.)

Regarding the CG Camel Corps uniform here are a couple of photos from The Sanusi’s Little War that may be of interest. The first is of the above-mentioned RFC observer, Capt L V A Royle, from his Camel Corps days. The second is of a large detachment of Sudanese in the Egyptian Camel Corps, and you can see that the NCOs in front have that same plume on their fezes. Both photos are pre-war; and both were taken in the Siwa depression, near the Libyan frontier. (The Sanusi book also has a description of the Chope incident.)

The Egyptian Coastguard has been a back-burner project of mine for years. The best source book on the CG Camel Corps and their animals is Trackers and Smugglers in the Deserts of Egypt by André von Dumreicher, who was head of the CG Camel Corps before WWI.

Regards,

Russell

[rmcguirk]

Photo # 2, CG Camel Corps detachment, Siwa pre-war.

[michaeldr]

Russell,

Many thanks for the further information and the superb photographs

regards

Michael

[bushfighter]

Michael

The article will probably appear in the Spring issue of "Durbar", the journal of the Indian Military Historical Society.

Russell

Please, Please proceed with your history of the Egyptian Coastguard Service.

Harry

[ddycher]

Gents

Have been struggling to differentiate between the various camel corps in this theatre from their evolution pre-war until the end of 1916.

I was finding it difficult enough with just the various elements of the Egyptian Army Camel Corps and the Imperial Camel Corps. I have been looking at who transferred from the Egyptian Army into the ICC in December / Jan 1916. I had not even considered the Coast Guard Camel Corps (sorry Russell should have picked this up from "The Sanusi's Little War"). I still do not truly understand the re-organisation of the Egyptian Army Camel Corps in 1907 that Sheffy refers to as there are ref's to the corps being around in some form or other as far back as 1885.

Does anyone have any ref's to the make up of the various camel corps upto 1916 that they would recommend ? I am picking my way through various western egyptian campaigns and mens transfer into and subsequently back out of the EEF.

Likewise I am still trying to put desertions from the Sudanese Battalions into perspective when weighed up against the Egyptian battalions.

Alot more questions than answers. As always any insight would be helpful.

Regards

Dave

[SiegeGunner]

Thanks for a very interesting insight into a theatre of the Great War that I, and probably many others, know very little about.

And what wonderful handwriting in the photo caption !

[rmcguirk]

Dave,

The is a good article online on the EA, including its Camel Corps, with splendid pictures at http://www.savageandsoldier.com/sudan/Egyptian_Army.html .

Regards,

Russell

[ddycher]

Thanks Russell

Now looking at desertions in the Egyptian Army Camel Corps Sudanese vs Egyptian coy's. Will post if I get anything meaningful.

Regards

Dave