NEWFOUNDLAND REGIMENT UNIFORM

[NFLDREGT]

Hi

I would like to add a 2nd Battalion, 1ST NEWFOUNDLAND REGIMENT uniform to my collection or at the least a clear picture of the uniform where the buttons, shoulder titles, etc are visible.

If anyone could help me with this endeavor I would be very grateful.

Thank you

Don

[Chris Martin]

Hey,

There is no real distinct 2nd Battalion uniform for the Regiment. The only two shouldar titles issued were the NFLD and 1stNFLD, both of which were worn by the section that eventually became 1st Battalion, and 2nd wore just the NFLD. The 1stNFLD title was worn untill late 1915, maybe early 1916, as the 2nd battalion was not established until late 1915 after that the NFLD was the standard shoulder title. I'm not 100% certain but as far as I understand the only difference between the 2 battalion uniforms was an absence of divisional patches on those of 2nd Battalion. 1st Battalion was the combat battalion and 2nd was the reserve battalion. Many wanted 2nd in the line as well but the Island could never raise sufficent men to assure the British war office that they could maintain both units in the line. Have a look at this photo of Newfoundlanders in Britain, I believe they are 2nd battalion men, there is an absence of divisional patches on their uniforms.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/greatwar/gallery...large/b312.html

The only other difference in uniform was between the Regiment and the Forestry Corps, both of whom wore the same uniform, badges and all, with the exception of the brass F.C. worn by the the corp on their upper sleeve, and the corps never wore divisional patches. Here is a photo, its not the best but the F.C. can be seen on the right sleeve of the man standing on the log, mid-sleeve in line with the breast pocket button.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/greatwar/gallery...meninwoods.html

Chris

[NFLDREGT]

Hey,

There is no real distinct 2nd Battalion uniform for the Regiment. The only two shouldar titles issued were the NFLD and 1stNFLD, both of which were worn by the section that eventually became 1st Battalion, and 2nd wore just the NFLD. The 1stNFLD title was worn untill late 1915, maybe early 1916, as the 2nd battalion was not established until late 1915 after that the NFLD was the standard shoulder title. I'm not 100% certain but as far as I understand the only difference between the 2 battalion uniforms was an absence of divisional patches on those of 2nd Battalion. 1st Battalion was the combat battalion and 2nd was the reserve battalion. Many wanted 2nd in the line as well but the Island could never raise sufficent men to assure the British war office that they could maintain both units in the line. Have a look at this photo of Newfoundlanders in Britain, I believe they are 2nd battalion men, there is an absence of divisional patches on their uniforms.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/greatwar/gallery...large/b312.html

The only other difference in uniform was between the Regiment and the Forestry Corps, both of whom wore the same uniform, badges and all, with the exception of the brass F.C. worn by the the corp on their upper sleeve, and the corps never wore divisional patches. Here is a photo, its not the best but the F.C. can be seen on the right sleeve of the man standing on the log, mid-sleeve in line with the breast pocket button.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/greatwar/gallery...meninwoods.html

Chris

Hi Chris

Thanks. There are some great pictures on that website.

I have a couple of pictures of officers wearing the 2ND Battalion badges but they are just not clear enough to distinguish the buttons or shoulder titles. I don't have any pictures of enlisted men wearing 2nd Battalion badges but I would expect that the NCO's assigned full time would have worn the units insignia. The drafts and recovering men would have probably worn whatever they had available. Based on the numbers turning up of the 2ND Battalion badges they were made in very small numbers. Years ago when I started collecting an old collector at a show in Toronto showed me a brass title with 2 over a small NEWFOUNDLAND slightly curved up. He had picked it up at a show years before and had never seen another. He didn't want to part with it and I have not seen another.

I have a brass shoulder title 1ST over NEWFOUNDLAND with fairly large NEWFOUNDLAND curved upwards and have only seen another couple like this. It is illustrated in a British book on WW I badges. There are some odd balls out there. Newfoundlanders in WW I seemed to have a lot of liberities with their dress in Britian. I have seen privates wearing tailor made uniforms similar to officer uniforms. I passed on one a few years ago because it was rough but it had cavalry type breeches with officer type tunic. It had the caribou type buttons, collars facing same way as cap and a Privates name and June 1916 date inside. In hindsight I should have grabed it as I will probably never see another.

Regards

Don

[Chris Martin]

I have seen privates wearing tailor made uniforms similar to officer uniforms. I passed on one a few years ago because it was rough but it had cavalry type breeches with officer type tunic.

A number of men in the regiment took to buying and wearing breeches, and wearing their cap and a very sharp angle, which when worn this way, if memory serves me correct, was refered to as a "speed cap." This maner of dress can be seen in a number of photos, such as this one.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/greatwar/gallery...arge/va585.html

I'm surprised to hear there was a 2nd Bat badge, other than the NFLD title. I have never seen one. The reason I'm surprised is that men typically did not spend much time in the 2nd Battalion, men were there for further training and hardening before being shifted to 1st battalion, or were there when changed to light duties after injury or before being sent back to newfoundland to be discharged. There is record of some men found to be underage upon arival of drafts were held there as well. While some officials, including Governor Davidson, wanted 2nd Battalion to become a combat battalion, their primary function was to feed 1st, recruitment problems and casualties meant men filtered through the 2nd battalion and it never achived the required level for combat. I'm not arguing the existance of the badge, just suprised to hear it existed. The number would have to be small indeed, limited to a hand full of officers. Were they issue or private purchase, if issued do you know when it was first issued?

Chris

[NFLDREGT]

A number of men in the regiment took to buying and wearing breeches, and wearing their cap and a very sharp angle, which when worn this way, if memory serves me correct, was refered to as a "speed cap." This maner of dress can be seen in a number of photos, such as this one.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/greatwar/gallery...arge/va585.html

I'm surprised to hear there was a 2nd Bat badge, other than the NFLD title. I have never seen one. The reason I'm surprised is that men typically did not spend much time in the 2nd Battalion, men were there for further training and hardening before being shifted to 1st battalion, or were there when changed to light duties after injury or before being sent back to newfoundland to be discharged. There is record of some men found to be underage upon arival of drafts were held there as well. While some officials, including Governor Davidson, wanted 2nd Battalion to become a combat battalion, their primary function was to feed 1st, recruitment problems and casualties meant men filtered through the 2nd battalion and it never achived the required level for combat. I'm not arguing the existance of the badge, just suprised to hear it existed. The number would have to be small indeed, limited to a hand full of officers. Were they issue or private purchase, if issued do you know when it was first issued?

Chris

Hi Chris

There would have been a core of officers and NCO's who would have been assigned full time. I have a picture than has 10 officers all wearing the 2ND battalion cap and collars but no shoulder titles visible. With so many officers including the commanding officer wearing the same badges I would believe that they were issue. Haven't been able to track any documents on when they started to wear distinctive battalion badges or when they stopped. I believe the start would have been when Whittaker finally received full battalion status for the 2nd. I have a picture of an officer wearing the cap and collars and dated April 24,1917. Just can't make out the buttons and no shoulder titles visible due to the angle.

Regards

Don

[wizard2250]

Don,

I Have close-ups of buttons from a Regimental Uniform. I'm not sure if it's my grandfather's (Private) or his brother (Corporal). The quality diminishes with trying to meet Forum size limits so you can PM me if you would like a copy of the original (a high quality photo).

shawn

[NFLDREGT]

Thanks for the pictures.

Don

Don,

I Have close-ups of buttons from a Regimental Uniform. I'm not sure if it's my grandfather's (Private) or his brother (Corporal). The quality diminishes with trying to meet Forum size limits so you can PM me if you would like a copy of the original (a high quality photo).

shawn

[Greg]

If it helps, the museum at Beaumont Hamel (Newfoundland Park)- on the Somme has a tunic on display- interestingly it an ORs tunic with 2nd Lieutenant's rank badges. It has metal regimental pattern buttons, shoulder titles and a 29 Division patch.

Greg