Rockdoc Posted 22 December , 2009 Share Posted 22 December , 2009 I've come across the following entry in 73rd Anti-Aircraft Section's War Diary for 24th July, 1917: "C" gun removed from temporary position at "A" to Italian Aerodrome I haven't heard of such a thing - not that I'm any kind of expert! - but there's no suggestion that the gun is being reallocated, just moved to a new position so the likelihood is, I would have thought, that the Italian aerodrome would have to be within a few miles of Dudular. There was a French one near Lembet but I'm fairly sure they had their own AA guns so wouldn't have needed British help, even if the Italians had shared the base. 73rd's "A" and "B" positions were on the ridge to the NE of Dudular village. I believe that "C" position was at Karaissi but I have to say that's speculation. "R" (why not D, I ask myself) position was sited north of the Monastir Road at the Main Supply Depot. At one point they also had an "M" position, which was at the Harmankoy Tumulus to the SE of the "A" and "B" positions and where 99th AAS were from mid-July 1917. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 22 December , 2009 Share Posted 22 December , 2009 Hi Keith, I don't have much information on the Italians, but can tell you that 2 Italian squadrons (the 111th Reconnaissance with Farmans originally, later SAMLs, and the 73rd with Nieuport scouts) and one Italian kite balloon section landed at Salonika on 11 Aug 1916. They were sited, initially at least, at the French airfield at Zeitenlick. (Different from the British Lembet aerodrome!) I've never heard that the Italians ever had an aerodrome of their own - maybe after most of the French squadrons moved up country it became Italian...? I don't know exactly where the French airfield was - it's not marked on any of my maps - but it would have been south-ish of the Harmankoj Tumulus (roughly speaking, south of the ridge was "Zeitenlick", north was "Lembet"!). The main Italian camp was about 2.5 km SE of the Tum, around the football field at Google Earth coords 40.673386 22.924425, so if they had their own aerodrome, it would probably have been near there. Sorry not to be more help! Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 23 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2009 Thanks, Adrian. I thought if anyone would have an inkling it would be you! The distance from Dudular would certainly tie in with the idea that the "C" gun was moved to a new position rather than a new unit but 73rd's Diary isn't the most informative by mid-1917. There's a mention in June that a gun belonging to 99th is loaned to the Section - that's a month before 99th becomes active - but there's no mention that the gun was returned to 99th nor that 99th has become active, for example. It gets very frustrating. The French HQ - at least the info source labelled as such - is certainly in the same general area. In June 1917 73rd's Diary records signals from itself (Dudular tumulus), 95th (Lembet) and French HQ as occurring at the same time and saying "Hostile plane over us." The eastern French Signals HQ was at Mont St Paul according to some other papers I've found (the western one was at Vodena) so could that be the source? Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 23 December , 2009 Share Posted 23 December , 2009 Interestingly I've just acquired a postcard of a french plane at Salonika - a rather basic pusher type. No Italian planes, however ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 23 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2009 I'd guess that the date for that would be earlier rather than later, Martin? By mid-1917, hostile planes are regularly being recorded as cruising at 13,500 feet or more and, sometimes, simply as "at great height", which I'm guessing means much higher than that. When recorded, the planes seem to be engaged from about 4,000 to 6,000 yards, making a hypotenuse length - I know this is simplistic - of about 19,000 feet at the nearer range. With muzzle velocities between 1,600 ft/sec for the 13-pdr 6-cwt and 2,000 ft/sec for the 13-pdr 9-cwt guns, the shell flight-times are already becoming too long for sustained accurate fire. With flying speeds around 100 mph you can go a fair way - in three dimensions, of course, in the time taken for the shell to get where you thought the plane was going to be when you fired it. That they ever got close to a plane, which they did, says quite a lot for the AA gunners under the circumstances. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 24 December , 2009 Share Posted 24 December , 2009 No date to give us a clue, I'm afraid, but yes, probably earlier rather than later .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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