1/5th Leicesters TF

[brownag]

Did the Marquis of Londonderry have any connection to the 1/5th Leicesters? I know they were based around Loughborough. Did the Londonderry's own land around there?

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Can't find any link to the Leicesters but this info may be of interest

The Londonderry seat was in Wales.

The 6th Marquess died in 1915

The 7th Marquess became Colonel of the Artist rifles in the 1930s and held the Territorial Decoration (TD).

He was most notable for his controversial policy of aerial bombing while in charge of the Air Ministry in the 1930s, his contacts with senior Nazis including Hitler after 1936, and radical attempts to remove sectarianism from Northern Ireland schools in the 1920s. He died in 1949.

The family name was Vane-Stewart

[Terry_Reeves]

Like Heritage, I cannot find any connection. The 7th Marquis was Major (Brevet Lt-Col) Sir Charles Stewart Henry Vane-Tempest-Stewart Royal Horse Guards. He was ADC to Lt Gen Sir William Pulteney, Aug 1914-Aug 1915 and thence second-in command RHG.

In what context do you ask?

Terry Reeves

[brownag]

Terry

It's not really the Marquis I'm interested in to be honest. A man from Sutherland enlisted in the 1/5th Leicesters in 1914 and died in early 1915. The local Sutherland paper at the time notes he was 'In Service with the Marquis and Marchioness of Londonderry' prior to enlistment. I was wondering if the Marquis had a connection to the Leicesters or to Loughborough which might explain his employee's presence in the Leicesters.

Cheers

Adam

[Martin B]

I understand that the Londonderry family made their money from coal in the North East and have a long military connection. A predecessor of your man distinguished himself in the Peninsula. There is a splendid statue of him, mounted and dressed as Colonel of the 10th Hussars, in the Market Square in Durham. He had an unfortunate reputation as an employer and in later years when the miners union met in the rooms above the Fighting Cocks pub, just opposite, at heated moments in debates the windows would be flung open and various objects thrown at the statue !!!!!!! This story was related to me by a Geordie who was 'with drink', so may not be entirely accurate !!!

[Hedley Malloch]

... (snip) ...

The Londonderry seat was in Wales. ... (snip) ...

He was most notable for his controversial policy of aerial bombing while in charge of the Air Ministry in the 1930s, ... (snip) ... The family name was Vane-Stewart

If my memory serves me correct his controversial bombing policy was contentious because it involved not bombing the Germans on the grounds that it might damage private property. The family family had extensive connections in the north-east, with a seat at Wynyard Hall near Stockton. Hard times forced a sale to Sir John Hall, Mrs. Thatcher's favourite propery developer; more recent residents include Kevin Keegan.

On a WW1 note, Lord Londonderry (Charlie Londonderry to his friends) was a key member of the Establishment and well-connected with all the major WW1 military and political figures. He was also a big friend of Cuthbert Headlam, a near neighbour of his, whose diaries and papers provided valuable source material for Denis Winter's 'Haig's Command' book, the bête-noir of the Haig Revisionists. It has been speculated that perhaps Headlam received a lot of his information from Charlie, though Headlam undoubtedly had direct first-hand knowledge of his own.

[Frank_East]

Londonderry Collieries.

Registered Office.Seaham,Co Durham

Telegraphic Address "Vanetem,Seaham"

Chairman. Most Hon.The Marquessof Londonderry.KG.Park Lane,London.

Irish Address. Mountstewart, Newtownards,Co Down

Collieries owned.

Dawdon,Seaham

Seaham,New Seaham

Vane-Tempest,Seaham

I would think that Martin's Geordie friend would be right about the story about the Coalowners.After all this was the era of the"we will make them eat grass first"principles of the Coalowners.After the Great War there was a great deal of labour movement from coalfield to coalfield as miners searched for a better employer and a better life .Unfortunately most of the Coalowners were of the same ilk.

Hedley is correct when he states that there was an unusal philosophy on bombing Germany .I think it came from the very top of of the Air Ministry

(Sir Kingsley Wood) during the "phoney war".Wood declared that industrial targets were private property.During this time there was a proposal to fire bomb the Black Forest. Apart from being a ill conceived idea which had no chance of success and no strategic value it was obvious that there was no intelligence on the Black Forest area.The Black Forest was "saved",it was declared private property.

This philosophy changed as we know when WSC took the high office.

Interesting subjects prise out still more interesting subjects.

Regards

Frank East

[Frank_East]

Londonderry Collieries.

Registered Office.Seaham,Co Durham

Telegraphic Address "Vanetem,Seaham"

Chairman. Most Hon.The Marquessof Londonderry.KG.Park Lane,London.

Irish Address. Mountstewart, Newtownards,Co Down

Pits.

Dawdon,Seaham

Seaham,New Seaham

Vane-Tempest,Seaham

I would think that Martin's Geordie friend would be right about the story about the Coalowners.After all this was the era of the"we will make them eat grass first"principles of the Coalowners.After the Great War there was a great deal of labour movement from coalfield to coalfield as miners searched for a better employer and a better life .Unfortunately most of the Coalowners were of the same ilk.

Hedley is correct when he states that there was an unusal philosophy on bombing Germany .I think it came from the very top of of the Air Ministry

(Sir Kingsley Wood) during the "phoney war".Wood declared that industrial targets were private property.During this time there was a proposal to fire bomb the Black Forest. Apart from being a ill conceived idea which had no chance of success and no strategic value it was obvious that there was no intelligence on the Black Forest area.The Black Forest was "saved",it was declared private property.

This philosophy changed as we know when WSC took the high office.

Interesting subjects prise out still more interesting subjects.

Regards

Frank East

[Bob Coulson]

The Londonderry family lived at Wynyard Hall in Co Durham until I think the 1980's when they sold the house and the estate to Sir John Hall.

[old-ted]

We have just picked this old thread up whilst searching through Seaham links.

The Londonderry family had a hunting lodge in Oakham, Rutland called Springfield. Your man could have been employed by the family there. The property was purchased by Charlie (7th Marquis) & Edith soon after their marriage.

The Londonderry role of honour for their employees who served in the Great War (printed in the North Star 1917 so there could be more names later) contains the following names from Springfield;

Allcock, W.

Butteress, A.

Burton, A.

Buckle, W.

Carlgn, I.(as printed on the role)

Exton, A.

Faulks, J.

Fisher, W.

Gray, J.

Hetterley, H.

Linsley, W.

Raine, R.

Rate, Harry.

Stafford, H.

Turner, A.

Wilkens, James.

Hope this may assist someone.

Regards

John & Kathleen