warbuff1 Posted 11 December , 2009 Share Posted 11 December , 2009 Hi to you all, After Years of trying to unearth a family mystery i finally have got somewhere thanks to Ancestry. I'll try and keep story brief but basically my Grandmother was born Nov 1918 in Saltburn by the Sea, Cleveland, she was raised by foster parents and never knew her real parents. She only had a copy of her birth certificate (which i now have).Sadly she passed away in 2003 without ever knowing anything about where she came from etc. After many years searching and finding nothing low and behold Ancestry had 2 service records for her father. The following are his details and as much info as i can fit here. I will come to some requests later if i may. His name was John McDonald Franklin born 1874 Whitehaven, Cumberland. He lived in Skelton/Saltburn area and was a deputy in an Ironstone mine & he joined up on 19th Oct 1915 aged 41yrs & 2 mnths at West Hartlepool He joined RASC( no 141497) and was posted to depot on 21 Oct 1915 560th company On 15th June 1916 he was transferred to Royal Engineers (no 175488) Tunnelling depot at Clipstone Notts On 4th July 1916 he was approved as a tunneller ,transferred to General Base depot on 15th and on 22nd July joined 174th Tunneling Comp He then joined 178th Tunneling company on 30th July On 8th Sept he was wounded (shrapnel wound to face & left eye) & on 9th Sept was admitted to what looks like 1/3 N 'bn' F A. He was discharged on 16th Oct and rejoined 178th on 21st Oct He was admitted to 22 General Hospital on 6th Dec 1916 and discharged on 16th Dec and joined 45 Bd from CC Etaples. On 7th Feb 1917 he rejoined 174th Coy from base. Again on 17th July 1918 he was admitted to hospital and on 5th Aug was sent to England No3 General Hospital He was transferred from 174th on 6th Aug to Tunnelling depot then to London district command depot Shoreham on sea on 27th Sept 1918 (Invalid return) finally on 5th Nov 1918 he was transferred to Royal Engineers Command depot at Crowborough then to Tunnelling depot Chatham on 29th Nov. I'm sorry if i have given too much info but now i have a few questions. 1. Any info on 174th & 178th Tunnelling Coy RE and where on 8th Sept 1916 they were 2.What was 1/3 N 'bn' F A? 3.Where was 22 General Hospital and also 3 General Hospital & also CC Etaples? 4. Between Feb 1917 and July 1918 where were 174th in action? Any more info would be greatly appreciated. I know i can count on you all to share your vast amounts of knowledge with someone like myself who's knowledge is very sketchy Sorry again for this long post Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeesown Posted 11 December , 2009 Share Posted 11 December , 2009 Hi Wayne,you can get a list of the Hospitals from the LLT that may help. Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 11 December , 2009 Share Posted 11 December , 2009 No 3 London General Hospital was at the Royal Victoria Patriotic School, off Trinity Road in Wandsworth, close to Wandsworth Prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbuff1 Posted 11 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 11 December , 2009 Cheers Gary i should have looked there first always forget it..LOL. I take it then that 1/3 N 'bn' is the 3rd (Northumbrian) 50th Division. Found out abit about Tunnelling company from there too but any extra info be much appreciated. Possibly connected to High Wood attack on 8th Sept i'm thinking seeing as info is that 178th were in that area? Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 11 December , 2009 Share Posted 11 December , 2009 Wayne No.22 General Hospital was at Camiers - just up the road from Etaples. The 'CC Etaples' refers to No.6 Convalescent Camp, Etaples I have a feeling that the '1/3 Nbn' entry refers to one of the Northumbrian Field Ambulances. I can at present only find an entry for No.19 CCS, which was the 2/1st Northumbrian Field Ambulance, but maybe someone can identify another that fits in better with the entry. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 11 December , 2009 Share Posted 11 December , 2009 And don't get too excited, but this is today's view of No.6 Convalescent Camp Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 11 December , 2009 Share Posted 11 December , 2009 Sorry I'm making this bitty - trying to cook with one hand and type with the other. No.22 General Hospital (1,040 beds) was taken over from the British by the 1st Harvard Unit (USA) and run by the Americans throughout the rest of the war until it closed at the very end of December 1918. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbuff1 Posted 11 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 11 December , 2009 Sue, Thank you so much so much info which is much appreciated. . You cooking anything nice?..LOL Wayne P.s Great website you have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 11 December , 2009 Share Posted 11 December , 2009 Steak and kidney pudding - heavy on the kidney Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbuff1 Posted 14 December , 2009 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2009 Does anyone possibly have copy of war diary for 178th for period sept 1916? Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbuff1 Posted 15 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2010 Does anyone know where in High Wood the 178th were mining? I.E a map would be most valuable. Heading off to Somme in 13 days so would like to see where he was wounded on 8th Sept and compare to todays view Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdawson Posted 16 March , 2010 Share Posted 16 March , 2010 Wayne, According to other posts under "Units and Formations" the War Diary is at WO 95/405 (178 Tunnelling Company RE 1915 Aug. - 1919 Apr) at the National Archives. There are just a few other posts regarding the 178th Tunnelling COY under Units and Formations, search for "178th Tunnelling" and you will find a few folks who you could contact that appear knowledgeable and appear to have a war diary copy. The books on Tunnellers are interesting but they may not have a specific reference for the dates you are interested in, I'll check tonight and let you know if there is anything for the date you mention. Regards, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdawson Posted 16 March , 2010 Share Posted 16 March , 2010 Wayne, I just did a google search on "178th Tunnelling Company" and found this: http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/somme/high_wood.html You might well find it interesting. Regards, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted 16 March , 2010 Share Posted 16 March , 2010 Presuming that her Mother was English, he must have been home at some time in February 1918! Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbuff1 Posted 16 March , 2010 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2010 Cheers Greg ,well i never thought i would discover that info very informative. Will def go there this next trip and take a closer look Bruce, now there is the mystery my grandmother never knew her parents and was fostered. Maybe it wasn't his child although her mother named him on the birth certificate. One of lifes mysteries that will never be solved I think. But whatever the truth i'm proud to be related to my great grandfather & will always have a place of remembrance in my heart for him Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdawson Posted 17 March , 2010 Share Posted 17 March , 2010 Wayne An excellent history of the Tunnellers is "Tunnellers - The Story of the Tunnelling Companies, Royal Engineers, during the World War" by Captain Grieve and Bernard Newman (along with "War Underground" by Alexander Barrie). On page 131 of the Tunnellers book, there is an account of 178th COY work up to and including Sept 1916. Prior to Sept. 3rd 178th COY had sunk a shaft 25 feet down and then pushed a gallery under the German lines to a distance of 320 ft, it was charged with 3,000lbs of Ammonal explosive and detonated on the 3rd in conjuction with a rush by the Black Watch. The resulting crater was initially taken, but lost under further strong counter-attacks. The company re-opened the gallery and placed a second charge of 3,000 lbs which was detonated on Sept. 9th. Based off this information it is highly likely that John was wounded by a shrapnel shell in his own dugouts or trenches as there was no recorded action on the part of the 178th on the 8th - they would have been digging and charging , getting ready for the rush on the 9th. The war diary would confirm this and probably contain as much information as this and perhaps a few more particulars such as any other casualties suffered in the same shelling. Regards, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 17 March , 2010 Share Posted 17 March , 2010 Although the 178th Tunnelling company sustained quite a few casualties throughout the War, there is only one for the 8th September 1916, which might assist in pinning down where he might have been wounded:- Name: NORTHRIDGE Initials: A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 178th Tunnelling Coy. Date of Death: 08/09/1916 Service No: 144848 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Sp. Mem. 30. Cemetery: CATERPILLAR VALLEY CEMETERY, LONGUEVAL Hope that helps build a trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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