Belgium Medal Citations

[Matthew King]

Hi

I'm hoping someone can help me, my Grandfather Reginald LG White served with 48 Squardon as an observer during the war and was awarded the Croix De Guerre Avec Palms and the Medialle Militaire. I was wondering when I might be able to find the citations for the medals and find out why he was awarded them. I have looked through the London gazzette but with no luck.

Any help of suggestion would be gratefully received

Thanks

Matt

[Matthew King]

Some information from the medals section of his service record

BEF Sect. 45 24.5.19 119452 La Decoration Militaire de deux eve classe (art 4) et La Croixde Guerre, Sent Decoraces au Militaire el-apres

France 18-8-18 - 1919

FF299 Decoration Militaire avec Croix de Guere 17.7.19

12c75 BW+K Medal Recd 20.7.23 Despatch 9.11.23

[sabine72]

hello,

maybe you can contact the belgian war museum

klm-mra.be

see if can find you an email address

kind regards

sabine

[joanbelge]

Hello I am having the same problem....the London Gazette does list my Great Uncles award but I have been unable to discover anything about the circumstances of the award

Joan

[sabine72]

hello,

I've sent you both a pm with an address.

good luck let me know if it was a succes

kind regards

sabine

[Matthew King]

Thanks for the suggestion Sabine

I heard back from Belgium today, from someone named Dirk, unfortuately he couldn't find the citation, he said

"After the war, a number of honourable decorations were put at the disposal of the foreign military authorities. It was however up to these military authorities to decide who was eligible for these decorations."

He was able to send me an extract from the Daily Orders of the Belgium Army announcing that the medals were awarded to my Grandfather.

Will have to try elsewhere to see if I can find the citation.

Matt

[ForeignGong]

Thanks for the suggestion Sabine

I heard back from Belgium today, from someone named Dirk, unfortuately he couldn't find the citation, he said

"After the war, a number of honourable decorations were put at the disposal of the foreign military authorities. It was however up to these military authorities to decide who was eligible for these decorations."

Matt

Hi Matt

I have found no citations for foreign awards in the LG. The two citations I have found, have been in War Diaries and that means many hours of looking & not very often successful. As you state above, most of the foreign awards were decided by the British military authorities & not by the foreign country that they originated from.

Peter

[healdav]

This happened all the time. I have come across lots of examples of people getting a medal from some country or another on some auspicious date or event for just the reason that they have given the same medal in previous years. Sometimes they ask the country to recommend someone who should receive it and they find someone who hasn't had a medal for some time.

These things are just a diplomatic nicety and mean absolutely nothing. I have seen medals - both diplomatic and gallantry - being awarded to people in several different countries by most of the European countries e.g. Turkey and Romania both awarded medals with enormous long titles to the deputy head of the gendarmerie in Luxembourg on the advice of the Luxembourg government. He had done nothing to deserve it (and I doubt that anyone in Turkey or Romania had ever heard of him), but the poor man hadn't had a medal for some time so he was recommended.

In this case I would guess that the Belgians thought they ought to award someone British with the medal (perhaps to maintain a parity with some other country's received number) and your grandfather was lucky enough to be recommended by the Foreign/War Office.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Allied Decorations were awarded on an "Inter Alia" basis,whereby ,particularly after a big operation various Allied Nations awards would be "up for UK recipients" & vice ~versa,with UK awards,the recipients would possibly have never seen an Allied Soldier from that country,they werea means of adding to the range of awards available,for various acts of Distinguished Service & Gallantry,most are promulgated in the LG without Citation occasionally a form of citation may appear in the contemporary local press,around the time of the award,but rarely.

The following Link Here are previous posts explaining & illustrating various "Inter~Alia "awards.

HB

[SiegeGunner]

The medals described sound to be French rather than Belgian, although both countries did award their medals, particularly the Croix de Guerre, to foreigners. Some were indeed 'handed over' to their allies on a fraternal basis, to be awarded as the recipient country saw fit - in which case they were generally awarded to men who had distinguished themselves, but failed, for some reason (quotas, witnesses ...) to qualify for one of their own country's medals. But some, both French and Belgian, were awarded directly on the recommendation of French and Belgian officers with whom the recipients' units were cooperating - in particular in the Belgian coast sector, which is my own particular area of interest. For example, a Sub-Lt RNVR and two AB gunners who were killed in the course of a protracted duel between land-based naval guns on the Belgian coast had French CdGs with palms laid on their coffins by the General commanding the French heavy artillery in that sector, with which the British batteries had been cooperating. I am therefore not at all happy with the assertion that such awards 'meant absolutely nothing' ...

[ForeignGong]

The medals described sound to be French rather than Belgian, although both countries did award their medals, particularly the Croix de Guerre, to foreigners. Some were indeed 'handed over' to their allies on a fraternal basis, to be awarded as the recipient country saw fit - in which case they were generally awarded to men who had distinguished themselves, but failed, for some reason (quotas, witnesses ...) to qualify for one of their own country's medals. But some, both French and Belgian, were awarded directly on the recommendation of French and Belgian officers with whom the recipients' units were cooperating - in particular in the Belgian coast sector, which is my own particular area of interest. For example, a Sub-Lt RNVR and two AB gunners who were killed in the course of a protracted duel between land-based naval guns on the Belgian coast had French CdGs with palms laid on their coffins by the General commanding the French heavy artillery in that sector, with which the British batteries had been cooperating. I am therefore not at all happy with the assertion that such awards 'meant absolutely nothing' ...

I agree with you, most foreign awards were given for either acts of gallantry or meritorious service, but occassionaly they were given to high rankers just because they were high ranking.

Nothing should be taken away from service men & women who earnt their awards.

Peter

[Matthew King]

I've just ready an article (Flight Magazine 1936 http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1936/1936%20-%203327.html) that says that only two Belgian Croix de Guerres were awarded to members of 48 Squadron. My grandfather was awarded one as an observer and the other went to a pilot, Sgt N. Hunt. Hunt was not awarded the Decoration Militaire but rather the Chevaliers de l'Ordre de Leopold II which appears to be quite a high award. Don't know if I am making large assumptions but could it be possible that they were both awarded these medals for an incident that occurred while they were flying together?

[ForeignGong]

They were both Gazetted on 15 / 7 / 1919 as per

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/31457/supplements/8988

Peter

[Matthew King]

Thanks Peter for finding their listing in the London Gazette, I've looked a few times but never found Grandad. Also it is great because it gives Hunt's first name as Norman which I didn't know. A quick google of Norman Hunt and I found his grandson had asked pretty much the same question on the Aerodrome forum so I think I will try and contact him and maybe a combined search might prove fruitful.