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small red chevrons


jollgo
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Among my late grandfathers papers and photos I came across 3 red chevrons, similar to a sergeants stripes but much smaller. Does anyone have an idea what they may signify?

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Among my late grandfathers papers and photos I came across 3 red chevrons, similar to a sergeants stripes but much smaller. Does anyone have an idea what they may signify?

Was he army or navy?

If he was in the navy then they are long service stripes. do you have a photo of them? they might be wound stripes if he was in the army?

Regards

James

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Was he army or navy?

If he was in the navy then they are long service stripes. do you have a photo of them? they might be wound stripes if he was in the army?

Regards

James

He was a sergeant in the Connaught Rangers and served 1914- 1920, and then RASC (RAF) -1945. The Navy angle is interesting as my father was in the Royal Navy 1937-45 (On HMS Rodney in the Bismark action) and some of his stuff was mixed in with grandad's. Could it belong to him?

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truthergw: Afraid I have to correct you about the red chevrons. Only one would ever have been worn and then only if the person served overseas during 1914. Thereafter the chevrons were blue. I have been researching this very question within the past week and have been definitively advised by experts, especially GRUMPY who kindly provided the relevant Army Orders . There are several threads on this, see 'overseas chevrons' for example.

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Although small red chevrons were worn as service stripes in WW2, lots were dished out to the civil defence services, Home Guard, ARP etc.

Regards

Matt

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Gents, the small red service chevrons being discussed, are WW2 issue.

Seph

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Seph:

You are being too bold in your statement. Small red chevrons were issued (not until 1918) for overseas service in 1914, and Jollgo's grandfather was in the Connaught Rangers in 1914. As I said in my earlier post, after 1914 the chevrons were blue. However, it is not said whether grandad went overseas in '14. I'm interested that the same red chevrons were issued in WW2. Can you please provide more info?

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I was clearing a deceased estate a while back and amongst the stuff were some red chevrons that appear to have been issued to Special Constabulary Constable.

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If it helps to identify 1914 chevrons, the official Army Order states the stripes are 1/4inch wide, and each arm is 1 1/4inches long. Perhaps auch-vill-som's find is for a chap who served overseas in 1914 before becoming a copper?

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I think the clue's in 'like a Sergeant's stripes only smaller' - I think that rules out the 1914 Overseas service stripe.

Are they embroidered on wool or printed on canvas? (Most WW2 versions were printed). The WW2 stripes are also narrower and fatter than the WW1 versions. Some regiments had red stripes for rank prior to WW1 (for example 1st Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment) but these were mainly worn in places such as India and I don't think they survived into the Service Dress era.

A picture is worth a thousand words!

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If it helps to identify 1914 chevrons, the official Army Order states the stripes are 1/4inch wide, and each arm is 1 1/4inches long. Perhaps auch-vill-som's find is for a chap who served overseas in 1914 before becoming a copper?

No he was born in 1907 and didn't serve in WW2 except as a SC. His father was RE in WW1 but only served for a year.

Mick

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Although small red chevrons were worn as service stripes in WW2, lots were dished out to the civil defence services, Home Guard, ARP etc.

Regards

Matt

This is interesting matt as my other grandad was killed in 1941 and was a policeman at the time. Would he have qualified for the stripes?

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truthergw: Afraid I have to correct you about the red chevrons. Only one would ever have been worn and then only if the person served overseas during 1914. Thereafter the chevrons were blue. I have been researching this very question within the past week and have been definitively advised by experts, especially GRUMPY who kindly provided the relevant Army Orders . There are several threads on this, see 'overseas chevrons' for example.

Quite right. I got it wrong way round. I really ought to check and not rely on an ever more porous memory.

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Seph:

You are being too bold in your statement. Small red chevrons were issued (not until 1918) for overseas service in 1914, and Jollgo's grandfather was in the Connaught Rangers in 1914. As I said in my earlier post, after 1914 the chevrons were blue. However, it is not said whether grandad went overseas in '14. I'm interested that the same red chevrons were issued in WW2. Can you please provide more info?

OK... perhaps I did not make my answer plain enough. The initial post mentioned a group of three small red chevrons.. the same size approx as the WW1 overseas service chevrons. As those of us who are aware, and would not require telling umpteen times... and who would have understood the meaning of the term 'the service stripes being discussed' *the group of three like sgts stripes but smaller* the 1914 service chevron is red, with consecutive years 1915 to 1918 being blue. I assumed... now incorrectly... that this point would have been known.. my apologies.

For WW2, the service chevrons...... same size approx as the WW1 issue, but now all red.... were issued to be worn in the same position as the WW1 type. I was indicating that the chevrons being discussed in post-1... were not WW1 issue [ due to it being a group of three ] but WW2 issue. Now, to save all from any confusion and misrepresentaion, or from simple explanations that some may find hard to understand due to there being no lengthy wording in there... it may be an idea if the originator of post-1 could possibley include a picture or two of the red chevrons being discussed.

Seph :blink:

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Seph:

My apologies if I seemed a bit blunt. I have it in mind but can't for the moment track it down that the chevrons were made in strips (possibly of five chevrons) which the recipient had to cut into separate chevrons for sewing onto his uniform. That is why I thought, and believe, that the red ones in question were WW1 issue.

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Here is a pic of the WW2 issue that I have had a friend photograph for me.

Seph

post-18081-1257628276.jpg

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OK... perhaps I did not make my answer plain enough. The initial post mentioned a group of three small red chevrons.. the same size approx as the WW1 overseas service chevrons. As those of us who are aware, and would not require telling umpteen times... and who would have understood the meaning of the term 'the service stripes being discussed' *the group of three like sgts stripes but smaller* the 1914 service chevron is red, with consecutive years 1915 to 1918 being blue. I assumed... now incorrectly... that this point would have been known.. my apologies.

For WW2, the service chevrons...... same size approx as the WW1 issue, but now all red.... were issued to be worn in the same position as the WW1 type. I was indicating that the chevrons being discussed in post-1... were not WW1 issue [ due to it being a group of three ] but WW2 issue. Now, to save all from any confusion and misrepresentaion, or from simple explanations that some may find hard to understand due to there being no lengthy wording in there... it may be an idea if the originator of post-1 could possibley include a picture or two of the red chevrons being discussed.

Seph :blink:

Thanks for your reply Seph. I had my first attempt at posting a picture today and it all ended in tears of frustration. In short I don't know how to do it.

Will go into the attic and retrieve the stripes and get one of my offspring to sort it out for me.

Yes I know, it's an age thing. :rolleyes:

Kind Regards.

John.

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Yes I know, it's an age thing. :rolleyes:

Kind Regards.

John.

I know John. My daughters daughter is only four, and she knows her way around a computer better than anyone I have seen! Don't you just hate it when they do that?

Seph :devilgrin:

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Have retrieved the chevrons from the attic and until I get a photo sorted out what do you make of this? There are 3 red chevrons printed onto a black canvas background, each stripe is about 1/4 inch deep and each arm is an inch or so long. As pmaasz suggested above it looks like they may have been cut from a larger strip of chevrons, but of course this may not be the case.

All suggestions gratefully received.

John.

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A bit late with this additional comment: Bootneck's chevrons are nothing like those on the WW1 uniforms we have in our Trust's museum collection.

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Jollgo;

Are they anything like the ones pictured by Bootneck's post above, even if they are on blue or black backing? The ones illustrated as said are for khaki uniformed services, army or Home Guard etc.

Although he has no ruler in the photo these are about the dimensions you mention.

If so then they are service stripes as issued to the ARP or Civil Defence most likely, maybe even special constables etc had them? Note the ones in his photo are printed on to the material as well.

If not, then they may be an officers quality issue or something else! Good luck.

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Bootneck's chevrons are nothing like those on the WW1 uniforms we have in our Trust's museum collection.

Am I missing something here? I never mentioned that the chevrons I posted a pic of were WW1 vintage..... they are WW2 :blink::wacko:

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Not at all Seph. Your comments have been very clear. Probably saw the pic without reading the heading.

I think there might be a misunderstanding because the chevrons were cut from a long strip

The following links might clarify the position:

A set of WW1 service chevrons including 1914 service http://cas.awm.gov.au/heraldry/REL35877

WW1 tunic with blue service chevrons http://cas.awm.gov.au/heraldry/REL31578

A WW2 RAAF jacket with three red service chevrons http://cas.awm.gov.au/heraldry/REL33603

A strip of RAN WW2 service chevrons http://cas.awm.gov.au/heraldry/REL28933

Cheers

Chris

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