WWI Cross memorial 'violates 1st amendment'

[centurion]

I'm surprised there isn't a YNP with a flag of its own to fly

[John_Hartley]

All the parish churches around here fly the St Georges Cross every day.

Interesting.

I'd understood that it was Church "law" that the flag flown had to have the arms of the diocese in the top left hand corner. A decision taken in the 1930s Google tells me. Certainly those near me have the Bishop of Chester's arms.

[Andy Wade]

Interesting.

I'd understood that it was Church "law" that the flag flown had to have the arms of the diocese in the top left hand corner. A decision taken in the 1930s Google tells me. Certainly those near me have the Bishop of Chester's arms.

Hmmm... well, d'you know I'm not sure if they have or not. I'll make a point of checking that as I pass two of them tomorrow. But they certainly fly the flag every day which is something I'm rather proud to see. Hmmm... Yes... Hmmm... I'll take a look. <Rubs chin>

Googled it:

Haworth Parish Church with flag

Looks like a plain flag of St George to me.

Have to check the others tomorrow.

[Mark Hone]

The late Alistair Cooke used to get very exasperated by this sort of thing in his 'Letter From America'. I agree with him that the people who claim to be outraged by things like nativity scenes on public land, crosses in cemeteries etc are usually a couple of busybodies with nothing better to do with their time. Hasn't the Supreme Court got other, pressing matters to attend to? At least they came to a sensible, albeit divided decision, but I don't think that it will silence the zealots on either side.

[ph0ebus]

The late Alistair Cooke used to get very exasperated by this sort of thing in his 'Letter From America'. I agree with him that the people who claim to be outraged by things like nativity scenes on public land, crosses in cemeteries etc are usually a couple of busybodies with nothing better to do with their time. Hasn't the Supreme Court got other, pressing matters to attend to? At least they came to a sensible, albeit divided decision, but I don't think that it will silence the zealots on either side.

Indeed, America, like most nations on Earth, has its fair share of knuckleheads. Thankfully, they don't always get their way.

Oh, and I would think the Supreme Court does have more productive ways to spend their time, but this issue, alsong with gun ownership and abortion, will never, ever be settled, so I have every confidence this issue will rise from the dead again to haunt us in the not-too-distant future. Sigh.

-Daniel

[truthergw]

If a constitution is to exist then the right to challenge it or have it's connotations and denotations expressed, must also exist. Since I am bound by the law, I have the right to know exactly what the law says. I do that by seeking a ruling.

[ph0ebus]

If a constitution is to exist then the right to challenge it or have it's connotations and denotations expressed, must also exist. Since I am bound by the law, I have the right to know exactly what the law says. I do that by seeking a ruling.

I could not agree with you more. That said, my feeling is, in this instance, is that the aforementioned quest to have a time-honored and much beloved war memorial torn down is just plain schtupid. If people thought having just one faith represented was not appropriate, then expand the memorial to include symbols representing all the faiths embraced by the specific men commemorated there. We should embrace, not erase, diversity.

-Daniel

[Pete1052]

Disputed Mojave cross honoring US war dead stolen

May 11, 2010

Associated Press

A cross erected on a remote Mojave Desert outcropping to honor American war dead has been stolen less than two weeks after the U.S. Supreme Court allowed it to remain standing while a legal battle continued over its presence on federal land.

Versions of the memorial have been vandalized repeatedly in the last 75 years and the motive this time was not immediately known, but the theft was condemned Tuesday by veterans groups that support the cross and by civil libertarians that saw it as a violation of the constitutional separation of church and state.

"The American Legion expects whoever is responsible for this vile act to be brought to justice," said Clarence Hill, the group's national commander.

Attorney Peter Eliasberg of the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California, which sued on behalf of an opponent of the cross, said the organization rejects any resort to theft or vandalism.

"We believe in the rule of law and we think the proper way to resolve to any controversy about the cross is through the courts," he said.

The 7-foot-high metal cross vanished from its perch in the Mojave National Preserve late Sunday or early Monday, said National Park Service spokeswoman Linda Slater. Bolts holding it to the rock were cut.

Slater said possible scenarios ranged from people "with an interest in the case" to metal scavengers. The U.S. Justice Department was looking into the case.

The cross has been the center of a legal dispute for about a decade since a complaint by a former park service employee represented by the ACLU.

On a 5-4 vote in April, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to order its removal. The high court told a federal judge to take a new look at a congressional plan to transfer land under the cross to private ownership.

The theft was discovered when workers went to replace a plywood cover that was placed over the cross years ago pending resolution of the case and had been torn off during the weekend.

The isolated site in the 1.6 million-acre preserve is a small rise amid Joshua trees along a road far off busy Interstate 15, about 200 miles northeast of Los Angeles and 70 miles south of Las Vegas.

[ph0ebus]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for posting this; I read the story yesterday but got caught up and did not have a chance to add it to this thread. This is one of the most disgraceful things I have read in recent days. Someone went through a lot of trouble to make a very public political point here. The culprit, when caught, should be obligated to tend to the graves of those men whose sacrifice is commemorated by the cross. For starters.

-Daniel

[Pete1052]

Forum member Ackimzey of Houston, Texas deserves credit for noticing the story first. She started a separate thread about it.

[Martin Bennitt]

Looks like the problem's been resolved

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-mojave-cross-20120425,0,4149437.story

all that's needed now is a replacement cross

cheers Martin B

[ph0ebus]

The cross has been found!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2229033/First-World-War-Mojave-Memorial-Cross-stolen-years-ago-turns-400-MILES-away.html

Daniel