Acting Ranks

[jim_davies]

Hoping someone might be able to explain the idea of "acting ranks" to me.

For example did a soldier receive extra pay etc as a result of increase. Did he get to wear the additional stripes etc ? How long before the rank became permanent ?

Main reason I"m interest is due to Charles Jarvis my great-great uncle, who is listed as Acting Lance Corporal on SD, Lance Corporal on the CWGC and Pte in the local memorial book.

And while I'm in this inquistive mood, how many NCOs and of waht rank would a typical company or platoon have ?

Just trying to get a better feel of how Charlie fitted into his battalion.

Thanks,

Jim

[CROONAERT]

An "acting rank" entails all the responsibility/authority of the actual rank but without the pay.Usually,the soldier is entitled to wear the appropriate badge of rank.The pay rise happens when the rank is confirmed.This can be after an indefinate period (if ever!).

A typical infantry company (1914-18) would be commanded by a captain or Lieutenant and consisted of 240 NCO's and men divided into 4 platoons of 60. The platoon was commanded either by a sergeant or corporal and was divided into sections of 14 men (usually commanded by a corporal with a L/cpl as 2ic.)

[kevin]

Jim

My own Grandfathers record reads all the way from Pte to Acting Colour Sergt with Acting Ranks and then getting made up to full Rank with pay amonth later, the only one not getting made up was the one he left the Army with,Acting Colour Sergt.

But there again every time he moved Battalion or Regiment he started from Pte again,which was quite afew times.

Regards Kevin.

[iain mchenry]

Dear Jim,

I am a serving soldier with an interest in WW1. Reference your enquiry about acting rank and pay I can only tell you how it works today.

When a soldier is granted acting rank, he wears the rank that he is acting in. The period the soldier stays in the acting rank can be indefinite. But he is payed for it.

We also have local rank which is the same as acting rank but you are not paid for it.

The rules and regulations have probably changed since WW1 ( although it wouldn't suprise me if they have'nt, knowing the army!!! ) but i hope my explanation has helped.

Regards

Iain McHenry

[charlesmessenger]

The general rule in WW1 was that the soldier did not receive the additional pay until he had held the acting rank for 28 days.

Incidently, infantry companies were usually commanded by captains, with Lts and 2Lts commanding platoons.

Charles M

[Terry_Reeves]

Charles makes an interesting point about Captains as company commanders. This was the case for many years before WW1 and is still so in many other countries today. There does seem to be a change taking place in WW1 within British Army though, with Majors increasingly taking that position. Anybody know when the change officially took place?

As a matter of interest, prior to WW1, the Rank of Brigadier-General was also an acting rank, selected full Colonels being promoted temporarily for campaign service.

Terry Reeves

[jim_davies]

Thanks guys,

I appreciate the responses.

Croonaert, thanks for the explanantion regarding company strength and composition. I would imagine that once battalions were engaged that the "ideal" strength of companies/platoons weren't always kept up.

Kevin, how many different battalions did your grandfather serve with. I can imagine his frustation with having to start over each time.

Thanks Iain, I could certainly see the army keeping some of the same regs from the Great War and beyond.

Charles-I read somewhere that the Brits relied alot more on junior officers running platoons /companies, while the Germans tended to use experienced NCOs. Any ideas with regard to the change in philosophy ?

Terry, about the Brigadier-Generals, (sorry I'm showing my lack of knowledge here), did they command brigades. And it seems that Lt-Cols lead battalions, so what did full Colonels do ?

I guess that as the rank might of been temporary and not confirmed accounts for the differences between the various sources I've consulted to what Charlie's rank was.

Thanks again.

Jim

Jim, a great deal of detail about unit composition, and who commanded what can be found in the "Definitions" area of the main site at www.1914-1918.net. Chris.

[CROONAERT]

The general rule in WW1 was that the soldier did not receive the additional pay until he had held the acting rank for 28 days.

I don't know whether colonial forces had different rules,but I have the paybook to a Canadian who was acting corporal (unpaid) for 16 days,acting corporal (paid) for just over a month before his appointment was confirmed.

[charlesmessenger]

Jim

The difference between the British and German philosophy was longstanding, with the Germans often having not more than two or three officers per company, while the British had six - company comd, 2ic, and four pl comds.

Yes, Brig-Gens were brigade commanders, and they also held senior staff appointments at corps HQ and above. Full Colonels were also usually staff officers. The rank of Brig Gen was replaced by that of Colonel Commandant in the early 1920s on the grounds that the Army had too many generals. The rank of Col Comdt only lasted a couple of years and was replaced, in its turn, by that of Brigadier, who did and does not rank as a general, unlike in other armies, notably the US.

Terry - in fact in 1914 company commanders were usually Majors, but certainly by mid-1915 they had become captains. I think that this was brought about by (a) officer casualties ( a reluctance to promote inexperienced officers of the New Armies above the rank of captain © to save the Treasury money. After the war, company commanders were again usually Majors.

Charles

[robwilliams]

Just to add another twist. I do not know when it changed, but during WW1 was not a rank, but an appointment. Hence on the back of 1914 and 1914-15 stars you often see 'Pte (L/Cpl)'. It can also explain why the WW1 pair accompanying such a star is named to a private - though my experience of naming medals also tells me there will be many exceptions!

Battalion part II orders clearly show appointments to L/Cpl (unpaid) and L/Cpl (paid).

Rob

[jim_davies]

Thanks again,

I appreciate the wealth of knowledge you all willingly share on the forum.

Chris-I'm sorry I tend to head straight into the forum, and occassionally neglect all the great info on the main site. Just checked out the page on Artillery Brigades, so I don't make the same mistakes !

All the best,

Jim