Memorial Hall

[paul guthrie]

The state of Kentucky WW1 memorial is a lovely steepled building at UK in the style of a New England church. The 1000 dead, 500 from combat, are listed alphabetically by county. There is a separate plaque to the 20 university men, 7 of whom were lawyers or law students.

I have written Stand To! articles about 2 of those remembered, Alexander McClintock and Frank Coffee who died with 24th Bn AIF at Gallipoli. He had come to Lexington at 15 in 1903 to live with a relative and attend UK. His family was really wealthy. father's business address was Bond St Sydney. Their home at Chatsworth is now government owned as a historical building.

Saturday night I was able to combine 2 passions, WW1 & bluegrass music. An old friend, Larry Cordle & Lonesome Standard Time played there, what a venue, acoustics are great! He's an eastern Kentucky guy & it shows, the evil Andy Max would recognize the type! http://www.larrycordle.com

During a break I noticed a man studying the names of the dead, talked to him & he had been to Gallipoli twice! Got to tell him about Frank Coffee.

A great time!

[Neil Burns]

Hi Paul,

Out of curiosity is there an available list of the Kentucky casualties with any details of service?

Thanks,

Neil

[Max]

Saturday night I was able to combine 2 passions, WW1 & bluegrass music.

I bet you are a laugh a minute on a night out ?!?!?

On a more serious note, any Laurel County boys listed?

Andy

[Max]

I've just checked out Mr Cordles website and listened with interest some of the mans recordings. On "Songs from the Workbench" there is a number called "Workin' end of a hoe", rude or not?please explain.

Andy

[paul guthrie]

Neil, I don't know if there is a list of the Kentucky dead but all are on the wall there. Oh evil Andy , of course there are Laurel County men, if you want I can go copy their names. I live just a few blocks from there. The names would be about the same as you would see in the UK, English, Scot & Scots-Irish, except for Louisville & the northern Kentucky area across the river from Cincinatti, there were few " foreigners " in the state.

And evil one, it's a different kind of hoe!

[Max]

Hello Mr G

I would certainly appreciate a list of the Laurel County dead, I'm sure the names will be familiar.

Andy

[paul guthrie]

Martha secretary from Puncheon Creek Magoffin County, yeedoogy! & I will walk over tomorrow oh evil Andy Max Hope it's open, a really great building , maybe I can get her to bring digital & get her to scan to this thread tommor night.

I can tell you one eastern Kentucky name on the walls, Willie Sandlin, Leslie COunty, that's 1 over from Laurel with Knox between. Willie won the Congressional Medal of Honor at Forges Brook in the Argonne Forest. He was honest to God from Devil's Jump Branch of Hell for Sartin Creek. He was illiterate.

He died in 1949 and his widow moved to Louisville to be near a daughter, unfortunately took him with her & he's now buried in Zachary Taylor National Cemetery.

[Max]

Thanks Paul, have a beer on the way.

[paul guthrie]

Andy have been calling to find out if it's open, no luck so far. It's not used on a daily basis. It's used a lot as the background for various university promotions.

Neil, as I thought our adjutant general has only a list of the dead by the 120 counties and those w/o casualty details.

It's been a couple of years since I have stumbled on something good enough for Stand To! or even our US publication Camaraderie.

[AndyHollinger]

I know this is ancillary ... but having been to the Tennessee WWI Memorial ... why do you think these two border states made such a big deal of the WWI experience? My own thought was this was a way they could come out of the generalized reputation they have as hillbilly states of backward people. I really mean that without smiling. It seems these two states out-did the more established states in contributions of men for the effort.

Of course it could be that there being nothing to do, a military adventure to France seemed like quite the adventure.

For those going to or being in Nashville ... the memorial is quite impressive ... a huge bronze statue of Prometheus looks over a stone garden with names on bronze plaques around the walls.

[paul guthrie]

Well we hear from Andy the good after hearing from Andy the bad!

War Memorial Plaza in Nashville is a very impressive structure, very near their fine 1850's state capitol. On the capitol grounds there is a fine statue of Alvin york, only slightly flawed by fact he's carrying a Springfield rather than Enfield & sergeant stripes are upside down. Shame on you pals who don't even know who he is! Inside is the Tennessee Military museum which among other things has Alvin York's medals on permanent loan from the family in Pall Mall. There by the way , the York home is open & is pretty much as it was when he died, his 57 Pontiac with license plate AA 82 is there, not restored yet, York General Store & grist mill & up the hill his & Miss Gracie's graves behind the church he usually attended , all the Wolf River pioneers are buried there too including and Pastor Pyle whom he consulted about his pacifism v. his duty. nearby is York Bible School which he built with the $50000 he got for the Gary Cooper movie, opened in 1940 $ closed after only a year, it's largely restored.

The state museum has been stolen from it's security is so bad.

Why such fine memorials in poor hillbilly states? Don't know, maybe it's similar to the fever for UT football & UK basketball today. I think we have an inordinate pride of place in these states and I'm as guilty as any, I love my place and would not live anywhere else on earth. As Governor Happy Chandler sang, " Ask a stranger on the street where on earth your God you'll meet, he'll smile and say Kentucky!"

What a cornball he was and many of us loved him. His grandson, my friend Ben, is now my congressman, 1 of only 2 democrats in the 8 person delegation.

Breathiit, Lee & Owsley COunties, desparately poor Eastern Kentucky mountain counties, all white, subsistence agriculture including moonshining, fueds etc., real life of what outsiders thought the whole place was like, drafted not one man in WW1, quotas were filled so quickly with volunteers. I believe but can't prove these were the only counties in the country which did this.

A place like that will spend money it did not have to recognize its men.

Am trying to get to UK today for the picture of Memorial Hall and the names of the Laurel County men for Andy the cur! but may be tommorrow, carpet folks coming today.

Whew! As Larry Cordle would say my fangers are about to bleed! If you want to hear Eastern Kentucky click on the link above, listen to Black Diamond Strings.

"When I left Fay Allen to chase my hillbilly dreams" Says fangers on that one too. He won the CMA song of the year a few years ago with Murder On Music Row, which was amazing since it is an assault on the entire Nashville music industry for the demise of old time country music , " Old Hank would never make it on today's radio" You got to buy the CD, can't hear that on on the link in 1st post in this thread.

[paul guthrie]

We have walked from downtown to UK campus and there will be pictures posted tonight. The auditorium inside seats about 500. The building was financed by public subscription and there are men from all 120 counties, some tiny, Robertson has less than 3000 souls but lost 3.

From Laurel County evil Andy! who abandoned his Laurel County bride tho she was only 13 & pregnant with triplets! You dog! Gordon Owens, Rufus L Pope, Mike Riley, Robert L Roberts, Thomas G Rush, Carl E Scali, Carlo Simpson, Edward L Spence Garrard Stillings, John H Taylor, Shelry Taylor, Ben Thompson.

From my native Harlan County in far southeastern Kentucky bordering Virginia & Tennessee and in the heart of the Appalachian coal fields, Willie Blevins, Harold Brandenburg, Harrison Brock, Morgan Cheek, Wilson Clem, William H Cornett, Sam Fields, William L Gilbert, Clark Hall, Frank

W Howard, William Koehler, Bradley Lawson, Henry Lee, William Lyttle, Dillard McKnight, Hiram( pronounced Harm) Middleton, John Mitchell, Pat Murphy, William E Osborne, James Owens, Edmond Pace, Hiram Russell, Virgil Sargent, Lafayette Sharpe, Gillis Shell, Herbert Jones Skidmore, Isem Skirmore, Homer O Turner, Frank Williams.

Of all these names there are 2 who likely came from somewhere other than the UK or their ancestors did. Most of these men probably had family here before 1800 as I did. By here I mean US but many would have been in Kentucky by then or soon after. We were the 15th state & there were 13 originals, all east coast.

There is a fine Doughboy monument at the courthouse with WW2 names and later wars added. There is a monument also to men who died in the mines. There are many more names on that one.

We will remember them.

[Max]

From Laurel County evil Andy! who abandoned his Laurel County bride tho she was only 13 & pregnant with triplets! You dog! Gordon Owens, Rufus L Pope, Mike Riley, Robert L Roberts, Thomas G Rush, Carl E Scali, Carlo Simpson, Edward L Spence Garrard Stillings, John H Taylor, Shelry Taylor, Ben Thompson.

Hello Carpetbagger

As we all know lawyers are prone to exaggeration.........it was twins

Thanks for taking the time to take down the names. As you know I still have a deep affection for Eastern Kentucky and am always on the look out for mention of Stringer, Evans, Speak (damn yankees), Dunn and Elam (good old Yorkshire name). The kindness that the people of East Bernstadt and Pittsburgh showed me will ensure that Laurel County will always be remembered fondly and have a special place in my heart. I will also never forget the absolute shafting I got when a big city, smart assed shyster lawyer, probably something like yourself, got hold of my divorce settlement. There is a special place in hell reserved for him. Despite his better efforts I still maintain very good relations with my ex-wife and her family. So it is not out of the question that I may bump into you one day. You'll recognise me... I will be the man walking down the street with an Enfield No. 4 Mk I or No 5 Jungle Carbine looking for a lawyer

Andy

[paul guthrie]

Always open season on lawyers! Oh evil one!

Well the pictures will not go up til tonight. It seems I had carpet laid yesterday & when I got home Pierre, a very bad cat, could not be found! Martha is his mother, bottle fed him, and came over to join the search. Was missing for hours, looked all over the neighborhood, put up posters, called all the neighbors, called for lost cat ads etc. Well about 930 heard meowing, the bad cat was in the attic!

So Martha got to bed late & will scan em tonight.

Bad Pierre!

And I scorn divorce work & have not taken one for years even when broke. Your own client ends up hating you and clients are bad to insist their lawyers behave badly, not happy otherwise. That aint my style. I get along with the prosecutor in a death penalty case I am currently involved in. Most of my criminals and injured folks end up liking me unlike divorces, they suck.

[Neil Burns]

I know this is ancillary ... but having been to the Tennessee WWI Memorial ... why do you think these two border states made such a big deal of the WWI experience?  My own thought was this was a way they could come out of the generalized reputation they have as hillbilly states of backward people.  I really mean that without smiling.  It seems these two states out-did the more established states in contributions of men for the effort.

Paul & (Texas) Andy,

According to The War With Germany:

Tennessee provided 75,825 men or 2.02% of the total in the Army

Kentucky provided 75,043 men or 2.00% of the total.

I'm not sure what their populations were at the time, Paul you may have that somewhere.

As I think I've mentioned in the past Northeastern NJ was not a big supporter of the Union in the Civil War so you don't see any Civil War monuments but just about every town has a World War I Monument. I think most folks at the time saw the First World War as the unifying event that cemented the reconciliation of the Spanish American War. In my neck of the woods I've often viewed the monuments as capturing a transitional period. There are few of the Dutch and French Hugenot names that dominated the area during the American Revolution and more of the new immigrants: Italians, Poles, Irish,Germans whose service in the War and names on the monuments made it clear they had contributed, and earned the right to stay.

And Andy (UK) I suggest a domestic weapon it may be difficult getting that Enfield on the plane.

Take care,

Neil

[Max]

And Andy (UK) I suggest a domestic weapon it may be difficult getting that Enfield on the plane.

No sweat mate, they are already in the states, i'm having difficulty in getting them back here (UK).

Andy

[paul guthrie]

Well guys I need help! ( So what's new sez Andy Max! ) Between us the girl from Puncheon Creek & I can't post the pictures but I do have em in an email if someone can post them. Thanks!

Assuming they do get on, all are of Memorial Hall except one of a petrified stump from my native Harlan COunty. It was in a coal seam of the Clover Fork Coal Co. at Kitts, Ky. It fell from the roof, when they do that they are called a kettle bottom. It's not terribly unusual but the size & completeness of this are. It's actually sandstone, not petrified wood.

One of my friends at the University was the son of the man who had saved the stump. He had flunked out of UK twice & was not eligible to return. Stump was donated and, presto! George was readmitted! Flunked out again!

One shows the ampitheater to the rear of Memorial Hall, I hope you like it as much as I do and wish you could attend a concert there.

[Max]

As Mr Guthrie is unable to post the photos, I'll have a go. I considered being a Lawyer at one time, but I decided to stay on at school instead

[Max]

Number 2

[Max]

Number3

[Max]

Number 4

[Max]

Number 5

[Max]

Number 6 and thankyou Mr G. Whats the story behind the tree stump? Americans have an affinity for trees (no jokes about both being wooden). I've got a photo somewhere of a tree in Athens Georgia that had the land that it stands in willed to it by its owner sometime in the last century. Its neatly fenced off and no one can touch it.

Andy

[Max]

Further to the above:

http://www.visitathensga.com/attractions_ripleys.cfm

The Tree that Owns Itself is a large white oak (Quercus alba) at the corner of Dearing and Finley Streets that is legendary due to a deed executed many years ago by Colonel W.H. Jackson:

"For and in consideration of the great love I bear this tree and the great desire I have for its protection for all time, I convey entire possession of itself and the land within eight feet of it on all sides."

The story of the tree first appeared in the Athens Weekly Banner on August 12, 1890. In 1906, A.L. Hull told the story once again in his Annals of Athens. This story has also been the subject of Ripley's perennial column, "Believe it or Not!" Countless publications through the years have brought attention to the tree, making it a top tourist attraction as well as a beloved landmark.

Around the turn of the 20th century, George F. Peabody, a philanthropist and benefactor to the University of Georgia, had the enclosure of granite posts and iron chain put around the oak. He also had the words of the deed carved on a white marker. Around 1942, the majestic oak, over 100 feet tall and 15 feet around, fell, a victim of heart rot and high winds. The Junior Ladies Garden Club germinated several of the tree's acorns, and planted a sampling at a dedication ceremony on December 5, 1946.

This tree, a son of the original, is now over 50 years old and has grown and flourished through the periodic care provided by the Junior Ladies Garden Club.

[paul guthrie]

thanks Andy, looks like the bad Andy has become the good Andy but don't be so sure! His email includes 666 which seems to me to be a dead giveaway of devil worship!

The story of the stump is in my prior post, almost said last post.