kin47 Posted 21 September , 2009 Share Posted 21 September , 2009 Hello I have an Australian A.H. Soper, A.B., ANF number 1504, wounded at Dilwar in August 1915. However, checking, I cannot find Seaman Soper in the Australian Archives. He does not have an RN official number. Any thoughts, Ladies and Gentlemen? Many thanks. don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted 22 September , 2009 Share Posted 22 September , 2009 Don, Have had a thorough look through the National Archives and cannot find your man. Even a troll through navy official numbers didnt turn up anything. Am at a loss on how to proceed. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waddell Posted 22 September , 2009 Share Posted 22 September , 2009 Don, Also can't find a record of him. Where was Dilwar? Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 22 September , 2009 Share Posted 22 September , 2009 What exactly is the difference between an official number with an ANF prefix and one with an RAN prefix? One source I have states that the former were "entered in Australasia for service in the Imperial Navy" and the latter were "entered by the Commonwealth authorities for service in the RAN". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 22 September , 2009 Share Posted 22 September , 2009 Don, ...... Where was Dilwar? Scott Hi, Had me wondering also - Think this is the place: Link Cheers, Terry Edit: Disregard this rubbish link - A navy man would be well off course if he docked here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River97 Posted 22 September , 2009 Share Posted 22 September , 2009 Don, Just had a rather lengthy scroll through the AWM site and can't find anything on him by service number or name. Where did you come across his details? Cheers Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esskay Posted 22 September , 2009 Share Posted 22 September , 2009 Must admit I wondered from Terry's link what a Navy man would have been doing so far inland to be wounded - I think the location is more lkely to be on the coast of what was then Persia. The LG printed a despatch on 27th July 1916 that gives an outline of operations in the area of Bushire between July and September 1915 that mentions Dilwar http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/issues/29...s/7455/page.pdf and http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/296...upplements/7456 Cheers Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esskay Posted 22 September , 2009 Share Posted 22 September , 2009 If it helps it looks as though Captain D. St. A. Wake (mentioned in the LG) was on board HMS Juno at Bushire - perhaps an expert can work out if there were any Australian ships in the squadron?? Cheers Sue PS - looks to be a detailed article with a map on the episode at http://www.naval-history.net/WW1Book-NavyE...here01.htm#XIII from The Navy in Mesopotamia by Conrad Gato 1919 - click on Chapter XIII. The Tangistani Raids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armidale Posted 22 September , 2009 Share Posted 22 September , 2009 For what it's worth, I have never before seen a WW1 reference to an "Australian Naval Force". The various colonies sent contingents to the Boxer Rebellion, and one was designated "South Australian Naval Force". The combined operation in the South Pacific in 1914 was named Australian Naval & Military Expeditionary Force. Good hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 22 September , 2009 Share Posted 22 September , 2009 Don. What about this RN sailor? Alfred Henry SOPER, ON SS5957, b. 16 Jan 1897, Barking London. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...resultcount=119 Like Armidale, I must admit to not coming across RNF being used in lieu of RAN in WW1. I would have thought that, by that time, the phrase would have no longer been used. According to NAA's fact sheet 30, Navy Service Records: "Australian Naval Forces service records from 1901 to 1913 are held by the Australian War Memorial." If it's an abbreviation you're working from, could it possibly be AMF instead, i.e. Australian Military Forces? Ord. Smn. Albert Edward FORBES seems to have had RAN official number 1504 in WW1 (series A6770), so it's all a bit confusing. regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin47 Posted 22 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2009 Hello Gentlemen Thank you for your input. Sorry, I was too sparse with details. Dilwar is in the Persian Gulf. JUNO and PYRAMUS had shore parties ashore on 13 August 1915 and sustained four and one, respectively, killed. There were thirteen wounded from the two ships, but none seriously, among them Soper. Soper has only an ANF number which indicated he entered service prior to the establishment of the Royal Australian Navy. I occasionally come across other Australian naval personnel who are listed with both a ANF and RAN number. I will check on Martin's Barking, London, Soper. I would have thought any ANF personnel would have been Australians (like I've never guessed wrong before.) Thanks again. don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frev Posted 23 September , 2009 Share Posted 23 September , 2009 Hi Don Albert W Soper was on the Pyramus The HMS Pyramus was originally a part of the New Zealand Division: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapo...MS_Pyramus.html And according to the Auckland Weekly, Albert's father, W.H. Soper (also a retired Navy man) - lived in NZ. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancest...n19aug1915.html So it might be worth checking into the NZ records. Cheers, Frev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 23 September , 2009 Share Posted 23 September , 2009 Well found, Frev. The New Zealand Division was part of the Royal Navy in WW1 (the RNZN didn't come into being until 1 Oct 1941), so I wonder where that means his service record is likely to be found? Don checked that possible match in the RN index and it wasn't the same person. Here's the relevant research information page on Archives New Zealand: http://www.archives.govt.nz/researching/personnelfiles.php Unfortunately, when I try their finding aid, Archway, to search for an individual as suggested, I can't seem to get it to display the search page. Perhaps it's just my computer. regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted 23 September , 2009 Share Posted 23 September , 2009 Martin, Am getting a read on Archway here, however it would seem to me that it costs 25 bucks a request. The only a h Soper it came up with was a 1966-1971 edition, way out of our range. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 28 September , 2009 Share Posted 28 September , 2009 Don. Received a reply from the AWM and thought I'd post info here, as it may be of interest. The NAA series number for ANF service records, which are held at the AWM, is AWM266. A search of RecordSearch indicates there are 43 records (archive records, not service records). Unfortunately none are available online. The record titles indicate a service number range, so Soper's record, if it exists, may be in AWM266 6/1: AWM266 6/1: [Australian Naval Force (ANF) Records:] S-55A Form of Engagement or Re-engagement in the Royal Navy under the terms of the Naval Agreement of 1903 - ANF 1501 to ANF 1525 The AWM researcher went on to say that: AWM266 8 appears to be the best record to begin your search. It is a large thick book with two ANF servicemen's names per page. However, their names are not listed alphabetically, so a researcher would need to look through the whole book. I suspect that AWM266 7 is a large thick book also, judging from the title: AWM266, 7: [Australian Naval Force (ANF) Records:] Record of Service. ANF Nos 1-1000 AWM266, 8: [Australian Naval Force (ANF) Records:] Record of Service. ANF Nos 1001-1796 These 2 books sound like good candidates for transcription by a naval historian! regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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