"Capt" J J Fitzgerald

[corisande]

Thanks for that extra information, among other things it has given me his police service number and the fact that he appears to have joined the police in about June 1920. The link to the repatriated prisoners does not work, can I ask you to have another go if possible.

The problem will all reports is that each has a spin, with the official reports hinting that they get the wrong man, and the IRA ones never admitting that they got any wrong men.

I have added that to my own page on J J Fitzgerald, it really is amazing how one can gradually fill in gaps

[auchonvillerssomme]

The Times reported casualties, one of mine was reported, I havent got access to the arhcive at the moment but they may have published a photo.

Mick

[auchonvillerssomme]

I have seen that photo before, but I have never managed to find the names to who the numbers refer!

Bennett, in the 'Black and Tans' tell us that it was a group of Intelligence Officers known to the volunteers as 'the murder gang'. The phtograph was taken in Lower castle Yard, it fell into the hands of the IRA. He does say the numbers refer to names on the back but apart from saying that no's 1 2 3 are marked as bing Irish. No mention of the Cairo Gang.

Mick

[corisande]

The Times reported casualties, one of mine was reported, I havent got access to the arhcive at the moment but they may have published a photo.

Mick

From memory I don't think any photos were published. The Irish Times had an article too.

One goes back to an age not so long ago where very few photos existed - the British famously did not have a photo of Collins, even though he had been a prisoner at one time.

I'll have a go to see if I can find that article again, though.

[auchonvillerssomme]

I also think the 'Captain' part is a red herring and should to a certain point be ignored for the purposes of his service record - he may have been using it as part of his alias or it could be that for some reason knowing he had been an officer people just called him captain.

I meant the London Times.

Mick.

[corisande]

I also think the 'Captain' part is a red herring and should to a certain point be ignored for the purposes of his service record - he may have been using it as part of his alias or it could be that for some reason knowing he had been an officer people just called him captain.

I meant the London Times.

Mick.

Yes, I agree, that is why I put it in quotes in the heading for the thread.

It is very odd that he was supposedly a serving Sergeant in the Royal Irish Constabulary when he was shot, but all the reports at the time refer to him as "Captain" and that was what the IRA group appear to have asked for when they arrived at Earlsfort Terrace looking for him.

On top of that there appears to have been no army mourners at his funeral in Dublin, just the RIC and Auxiliaries.

[auchonvillerssomme]

I suppose it could be argued that why should there be, he wasn't a serving soldier and given the circumstances of his death I wonder how many of his ex-miltitary colleagues would want to put their heads above the parapet or how closely the military would want to be involved.

I think the whole era is intriguing and I have 2 specific interests one is Percy Crozier - a name that sometimes causes very heated discussion and a cadet called George Bush - died of his wounds 2 days after he was shot in an ambush on 2nd Feb 1921 - I have a lot of info on him, he is buried locally close to my house in Yorkshire.

Mick

[corisande]

A new question has arisen, Dolphin in the thread I put up to find out about Fitzgerald's RFC career, has found

Flight magazine of 25 December 1919 indicates that 2Lt J J Fitzgerald (Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers) and RFC/RAF was Mentioned in Despatches for his good work while a Prisoner of War.

However my man's medal card indicates he was with Royal Irish Regt

It would appear to be the right man, does anyone have a view or a cross check?

[corisande]

I suppose it could be argued that why should there be, he wasn't a serving soldier and given the circumstances of his death I wonder how many of his ex-miltitary colleagues would want to put their heads above the parapet or how closely the military would want to be involved.

I think the whole era is intriguing and I have 2 specific interests one is Percy Crozier - a name that sometimes causes very heated discussion and a cadet called George Bush - died of his wounds 2 days after he was shot in an ambush on 2nd Feb 1921 - I have a lot of info on him, he is buried locally close to my house in Yorkshire.

There appears to have been a full RIC and Auxiliary turnout, but no military they could have had one, though I can see that individual officers may not have wanted to attend, it could have been done at regimental level.

The funeral procession went from King George V Hospital, passing through lines of RIC and Auxiliary Police along Western Avenue to Glasnevin Cemetery. It was led by the band of the RIC with muffled guns. The coffin was covered by the Union Jack and carried on a gun carriage. The pall bearers were members of the Auxiliary Force and carried numerous wreaths. An RIC firing party followed with rifles reversed. Then followed detachments from both forces.

For those readers of this thread that do not know the name Percy Crozier and why it might cause discussion, a brief resumee of his career is below.

Percy Crozier - 1879-1937; Brig.-General; commandant of Auxiliaries, Aug. 1920-Feb. 1921; one time trainer of UVF; capt. in Irish Fusiliers, and Lieut.Col. in Royal Irish Rifles, 1916; promoted to Brigade in Nov. 1916; fought in Lithuanian and Polish Armies against Russia; resigned from Auxiliaries having countermanded instructions from General Tudor not to dismiss members for indiscipline.

My interest in J J Fitzgerald is because he lived a few doors from my grandfather, an ex-Royal Dublin Fusilier officer. The exact circumstances of my grandfather's reasons for leaving Dublin were never talked about in our family, but I know that there is a story of my father as a 4 year old being hidden in a cupboard while gunmen went through the house. Whether that was the same date or not, I have no idea.

As I say, the IRA are never going to admit that they got the wrong man with Fitzgerald, and the British had an interest in portraying Fitzgerald as an innocent man.

[auchonvillerssomme]

He has several mentions in Flight Magazine - this is the one

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/vie...arch=fitzgerald

[corisande]

He has several mentions in Flight Magazine - this is the one

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/vie...arch=fitzgerald

Thanks, that might not be my man then, down as "Flying Officer" and Inniskillings. Still digging on that.

What happened when RFC changed to RAF on 1 April 1918. A 2nd Lt should have become Pilot Officer.

[Dolphin]

The RAF used Army/RFC ranks until late 1919, so a 2Lt would remain a 2Lt.

Gareth

[corisande]

The RAF used Army/RFC ranks until late 1919, so a 2Lt would remain a 2Lt.

Gareth

Thanks, I assume by the time that the MID came out at the end of 1919, that is why all the ranks had changed in that Flight reference

[Dolphin]

The ranks in Flight are both old and new styles. My guess is that those still in the RAF are referred to with the new ranks, and those who had left have their old rank titles.

Gareth

[corisande]

The ranks in Flight are both old and new styles. My guess is that those still in the RAF are referred to with the new ranks, and those who had left have their old rank titles.

Thanks Gareth

I haven't made any more progress with his POW days, it seems to be an area where few records exist, or were even made.

Does anyone have any advice on getting access to Mention in Dispatches records, J J Fitzgeralds must have been gazetted late 1919. I have seen posts here with MID details, but I have been unable to find how to access them

[Sinabhfuil]

The Cairo Gang were also known as the Murder Gang because that was their job - they were assassinating people thought to be prominent republicans. After the assassinations, which were made possible by inside information, it was almost impossible for spies to work in Ireland. Apparently one of the Cairo Gang who wasn't shot actually killed himself in Dublin Castle that day or the next.

By the way, if he was Royal Irish Rifles it's one thing, but it would be unlikely that a Dublin Fusiliers veteran should have expected any attack.

[corisande]

Apparently one of the Cairo Gang who wasn't shot actually killed himself in Dublin Castle that day or the next.

You can read all about it on my website and on the thread I have here on this forum

Cairo Gang were also known as the Murder Gang

Your words not mine. I don't think you have studied the subject in much depth!

[Murrough]

You can read all about it on my website and on the thread I have here on this forum

Hardly your thread Corisande, many people contributed to it.While the website is comprehensive it should come with the caveat that it is your own personal website.

Regards,

Murrough.

[corisande]

Pass

[Murrough]

Fine .link to Cairo thread here http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showforum=3

[mhifle]

Hi,

I don,t know if you have this already from the Irish Times 9 March 1921.

It looks like he served as a Flight Commander with the Russian Expeditionary Force at the end of the war.

Regards Mark

[corisande]

Thanks Mark

That is a great find. I must get a subscription to Irish Times. I must be missing quite a lot. When I have taken the short term subs, I never seem to have cracked their index system on Irish Times

I never though of looking for Fitzgerald In Russian Expeditionary force. I have got quite a lot on the flight side of that force with the digging I did on Parcel Bowen on the forum, so I'll have a root round today to see how Fitzgerald fitted in there.