stripeyman Posted 16 September , 2009 Share Posted 16 September , 2009 Could any pal who has the that good book (but poor title) 'The Grand Old Lady of No-mans Land' look up a Vickers with the number 6501 ? The tripod which I assume would not stay with the gun over the years is dated 1940. Thank you Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 16 September , 2009 Share Posted 16 September , 2009 What is the serial number prefix? If it is a WWI gun then the prefix should be "L" for Erith made guns and "C" for Crayford made ones, with additional "A", "B", "H" and "K" series from Erith.. If "L" it is July 1916 and if "C" then October 1917. "A" is July/Sept 1917 "B" is August 1918 "H" is Jan/Mar 191 "K" did not reach your number. If none of these then we need more details. The inspectors stamps should give you the year anyway. Look for a stamp with a crown above a letter and number and an abbreviated date e.g. '17. What's wrong with the title? Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 16 September , 2009 Share Posted 16 September , 2009 My gun is L 6826 and dates to July 1916. There is a web site Vickers Gun.Com that will answer your question in the technical section. Fellow forum member Richard Fisher also has an excellant site...put vickers gun into Google. Incidently a WW1 tripod is rare and may have multiple dates for legs, cross head, direction dial etc. My example has a 1916 dated tripod body / legs, a G and B 1915 dated cross head and 1918 dial plus the rear pin has a faint 1917 date.....rare. Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyman Posted 23 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 23 September , 2009 Thank you both for for the info. Today I got out the jewelers eye glass and scrutinised the gun. I found no prefix to the number on the water jacket but these marks on cocking handle MA'41, W above forward mounting pin hole and MA42 on left bottom of receiver. So 42 is the year but what is MA ? Cheers Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 23 September , 2009 Share Posted 23 September , 2009 MA equals "made in Austrailia"...I believe you have a WW11 model. Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyman Posted 24 September , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 September , 2009 This the actual gun I was enquiring about, mounted on a replica Carden-Loyd Mk6 MG Carrier. Thanks for your help. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 24 September , 2009 Share Posted 24 September , 2009 As indicated MA= made at Lithgow Small Arms Factory, New South Wales, Australia OA or MAO = made at the Rifle Factory No2 (Orange) NSW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 3 December , 2009 Share Posted 3 December , 2009 I have just aquired a 5 arch gun with the following numbers L827 on the barrel, L842 near the trigger and L1571, also has numbers on the underside of the gun L842, L731 and 5086 inside. . any ideas on dates? matt Is this normal to so many different numbers on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 4 December , 2009 Share Posted 4 December , 2009 You have what is basically a 1915 gun, all be it a "bitser". L731 was made in March 1915 L827 and L842 in May 1915 L1571 was made in August 1915. If the part serialled 5086 is a separate part without any other serial number, and has no letter prefix, I suggest it might be of Australian origin. Given that these guns have been brought back to the UK for de-activation from all over the world, and many of those places were not too careful about matching serial numbers, at least your gun is (mostly) made up from parts of similar vintage. I am also not sure about some of the dealers who de-activated these guns. Mix and match seems to have been the guideline for a lot of the ones I have looked at. Also, a large number of Australian guns came to the Uk in recent years, witness the one this thread started with. A small point, but "MA" does not actually mean "Made in Australia". All the Australian ordnance factories had codes starting with "M". MA, MAO, MF, MG, MH, MJ, MS etc. I do not know why, but hopefully some digger can tell us. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 4 December , 2009 Share Posted 4 December , 2009 Matt, Sounds like you got yoursef a nice gun....rare early one...well done. FYI Regimentals has just listed a B series fluted gun on WW 2 tripod....wait....wait......£2550. Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 5 December , 2009 Share Posted 5 December , 2009 i remember when you could get them for £300! once the house is done it will have pride of place -well if i'm allowed! it is a lovely one with war time repairs on the jacket, and a 1916 tripod as well! now i just eed all the things that go with it.... matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 5 December , 2009 Share Posted 5 December , 2009 Matt, Could you post piccies / pm me? Would love to see tri pod...WW1 dated ones are rare...as statted I was lucky and got a 1916 one with 1915 brass cross piece and 1918 range disc. Where did you source this rare beast?? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 5 December , 2009 Share Posted 5 December , 2009 Matt, Could you post piccies / pm me? Would love to see tri pod...WW1 dated ones are rare...as statted I was lucky and got a 1916 one with 1915 brass cross piece and 1918 range disc. Where did you source this rare beast?? TT The range disc is marked M.T 303 Mk IV Dial Dirn Mk II witha few small markings RT, 00/2 r 00/4 r on the tripod itself no 1559 the brass cross piece is marked reg no c 898585 .303 maxim mk iv rh & sons 1916 will get pics sorted as soon as i can matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Fisher Posted 5 December , 2009 Share Posted 5 December , 2009 TT, Anything particular you wanted photos of on the WW1 tripod? I've a few early ones that all have their own differences. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 5 December , 2009 Share Posted 5 December , 2009 Richard, anything really. You see so many WW2 but few WW1. The maker details are always interesting. If I listed some of the marks on mine could you dechipher? Regards and thanks TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Fisher Posted 5 December , 2009 Share Posted 5 December , 2009 Certainly try to. I've three complete WW1 tripods I think. One is as per 1916, including the Mk I Direction Dial, hand wheel cover and serial number plate and the others are later modifications. I've also a spare Maxim stamped crosshead as well I think. I'll try to put a paper together of the development, along with a load of photos. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 5 December , 2009 Share Posted 5 December , 2009 any ideas on the tripod i have? numbers a few posts earlier thanks matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Fisher Posted 6 December , 2009 Share Posted 6 December , 2009 The range disc is marked M.T 303 Mk IV Dial Dirn Mk II witha few small markings RT, 00/2 r 00/4 r on the tripod itself no 1559 the brass cross piece is marked reg no c 898585 .303 maxim mk iv rh & sons 1916 will get pics sorted as soon as i can matt The tripod would not have had the direction dial at the time of manufacture and this example might be Australian manufacture as Australian-manufactured tripods were produced at 'Randwick Tramways', hence the 'RT'. Manufacture of the tripod would probably have been Richard Hornsby & Sons, Grantham. They also made a number of other accessories and parts, e.g. Muzzle cups. With a 1916 date, it looks to have been one of an order of 3,000 placed on 11 November 1915. Hope that is of help. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 6 December , 2009 Share Posted 6 December , 2009 The tripod would not have had the direction dial at the time of manufacture and this example might be Australian manufacture as Australian-manufactured tripods were produced at 'Randwick Tramways', hence the 'RT'. Manufacture of the tripod would probably have been Richard Hornsby & Sons, Grantham. They also made a number of other accessories and parts, e.g. Muzzle cups. With a 1916 date, it looks to have been one of an order of 3,000 placed on 11 November 1915. Hope that is of help. Rich yes it does a great deal, thanks! so if its australian is it ww1 as well? matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew lucas Posted 18 October , 2015 Share Posted 18 October , 2015 Appreciate this is an old thread, i can t get to the gun at present, but wondered what the 5 arch guns are going for these days. Its the gun that i ve posted on here matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 18 October , 2015 Share Posted 18 October , 2015 Well WW1 guns on WW2 tripods seem to be selling at 4000. Well that's what dealers are asking. Not sure if they get though? Not sure if multi arches especially more expensive tha single? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 18 October , 2015 Share Posted 18 October , 2015 The lightened top covers are especially sought after so I would expect they would make a premium. They have never been easy to find. My old Vickers, now in the care of Richard Fisher, was L677. Virtually every part had been milled to reduce weight, and the serial numbers were beautifully 'pantographed' on many parts including the bottom slide. They really were the Rolls Royce of MGs early on. The obvious parts were the side plates and the top cover. Less obvious were the drilled out pins! Even the lock parts were bored out on some of these early guns, and the rear crosspiece, the bit with the grips, was beautifully milled out. It is exceptionally difficult to find a perfect early gun these days. It took me quite a while to 'reverse engineer' L677 Even though it was very original to start with, service use meant that parts were frequently swapped around and replaced, particularly the working parts of course. I was lucky to be given access to the bulk of the Indian Vickers that were imported into the UK many years ago. I must have looked at and checked the best part of 100+ guns. Very few still had original parts, some had clearly had hard lives, and in fact most had WW2 manufactured Australian parts on them, even the earliest.The Indians must have gone shopping post WW2! If I remember correctly the earliest Vickers in that batch was L16 or thereabouts (I no longer have the list), though it had been largely rebuilt at some point. Though I was literally up to my eyes in cosmoline it did yield some useful early 'VSM' marked parts. The net result was a Vickers which was about 98% as built. I even eventually managed to find an early Maxim style rear sight slide. Luckily it has a good home now with Richard! Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 19 October , 2015 Share Posted 19 October , 2015 A lot of the Vickers in the UK collectors market came from Oz in 1990. They were sold out of war reserves here in 1989. The demil guns sold here to collectors were released at AUD$1000 each without tripod. The bulk went to the UK with tripods at $300 each. (The exchange rate back then was about AUD$1=GBP£0.34 Part of the reason so many are "bitzers" was that there had been a major refurbishment of the war reserves Vickers up at SAF Lithgow in the mid 70s. This was full refurbishment, stripping down to minor components, tolerance checking parts and rebuilding good guns out of the best parts and scrapping the remainder. Considering that we had sold off the machinery to make .303 cartridges a decade earlier and were not issuing .303 anywhere (school cadets had used .303 in rifles and Brens, but they were disbanded in mid1975, their ammunition had been sourced through the 70s from India) it did make any sense to spend the money on the refurbishment - but it was done. Anyway it was a good thing they went to the UK, when we changed our laws back in 1998, nearly all the Vickers were confiscated. Being demilled did not count. A friend was given a permit to keep his after he had it sectioned. 5 years latter when he had to renew the permit, the application was refused and all his sectioned guns were confiscated. Cheers RT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 19 October , 2015 Share Posted 19 October , 2015 A lot of the Vickers in the UK collectors market came from Oz in 1990. They were sold out of war reserves here in 1989. The demil guns sold here to collectors were released at AUD$1000 each without tripod. The bulk went to the UK with tripods at $300 each. (The exchange rate back then was about AUD$1=GBP£0.34 Yes, I remember them being advertised with tripod for around £300-400 at the time. If only my teenage self had had the foresight and money to buy one... I do however have a mint FTR'd 1943 Lithgow Bren that I believe came out at the same time. I believe those that didn't escape to the UK ended up going in the smelter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 19 October , 2015 Share Posted 19 October , 2015 Just to clarify, I'm not referring to the Australian guns in my post but the separate import of part of the Indian inventory. I once had a telexed copy of the inventory and it was surprising how many early guns had survived. The vast majority were DP guns by that stage and many had been rebuilt so bore only slight similarity to their original appearance. Some looked like they had been gone over with an angle grinder! I remember the arrival of the Australian guns quite well. The main importer had vast quantities of spares and accessories too, so much so that some of it ended up being neglected and later even dumped. The market was somewhat saturated at that time. If I remember correctly I believe the trade price around that time was about £50 for a boxed gun. I remember looking at some of them. Many of the boxes (a few were WW1 dated) had unit markings and badges or flashes on. Some looked as though they had only ever been proof tested, they were brand spanking new. In amongst all the kit were some early parts, though it was a massive ball ache to sort through as most of it was in stillages. I remember seeing a huge pile of belts tangled into a mass in one stillage, looking like a giant brass octopus! Requests to extract items were usually met with looks of disbelief and a prompt ..... off! I dare say some now very valuable items were missed that way. Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing. If only we knew! It took quite a while for the prices to accelerate, some years in fact. Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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