Yorkshire Regiments in Action Ypres 14-18

[kerry]

Dear Colleagues,

could someone please advise on a source of info to list the Yorkshire regiments involved in the defence of the Ypres Salient, dates and battles? I'm taking a party of cadets over in August and want to give them some research to do before they go, into looking at the role of their ancestral cap badge. These include:

KOYLI, Duke of Wellingtons, PWO (embracing the West and East Yorks Regts) and the Green Howards.

Similarly, if anyone could help with suggestions as to a suitable Key Stage 4-level study pack this would be helpful.

Many thanks

Kerry

[CROONAERT]

For 1st and 2nd Ypres, take a look at Ray Westlakes "British Battalions in France and Belgium 1914" and "British battalions on the Western Front January-June 1915". "First Ypres 1914" published by Osprey gives a good ORBAT for that battle, as does "Magnificent but Not War" by John Dixon for 2nd Ypres. I think ORBATS for all 4 battles can be found in Michael Scott's "The Ypres Salient" available from the N&MP.

In these, I think you'll find that some battalions of all the regiments that you mention took part at some point in the fighting around Ypres.

Hope this is of some help.

Dave.

[Bob Coulson]

Kerry,

As far as the Yorkshire Regiment-Green Howards are concerned the official battle honours for the regiment are,

1st Ypres 1914 - 2nd Battalion.

2nd Ypres 1915 - 2nd, 4th & 5th Battalions.

3rd Ypres 1917 - 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th & 10th Battalions.

Bob.

[andyspiller]

Kerry

2nd Bn DWR went to France in Aug 1914 and were involved in Mons, Le Cateau, Le Bassee in 1914. 1915 saw them in action again at Hill 60 (next to the KOYLI) etc.etc..

If you woud like any further DWR/5th Division info let me know.

Regards

Andy

[Mark Hone]

In Flanders Fields Museum do quite a comprehensive study package, which you can purchase at fairly modest cost.. I've got to admit I'm not a big fan of worksheets myself but I know a lot of people do use them on tours to focus students' attention. One of my difficulties is that I take pupils from a wide age range (12-18), so coming up with a standard worksheet would be pretty difficult! McCarthy 'The Battle of Passchendaele: The Day By Day Account' is a useful starting point for Third Ypres as it goes through the role of each division in a systematic and concise manner with identification of individual battalions and a good index. I'll peruse my copy and make some suggestions.

[Mark Hone]

I have looked through our school library copy of McCarthy for suggestions:

2nd Green Howards were part of the 30th Division attack through Sanctuary Wood on 31st July 1917, which might be a suitable action to study. Unfortunately I do not have access to my SDGW CD-ROM at work, so cannot check up where the battalion's fatalities are buried but there are likely to be some in the several cemeteries nearby.

On 9th October 1917 6th Battalion (33 Brigade 11th Div) was involved in a fierce battle for Poelcapelle village. Poelcapelle has one of the largest CWGC cemeteries and would be a good area to visit.

8th and 9th Battalions attacked Inverness Copse in a successful 23rd Division attack on 20th September 1917.

I chose the Green Howards as an example but it would be possible to do this for all the regiments you mention. You could focus on a specific action then use Soldiers Died in The Great War and the CWGC site to identify where the dead for the action are buried or commemorated. This would give your students some idea of the scale of the fighting and also the number who have known graves. It would also be possible to produce trench maps of the area involved in the action and compare it to the ground today (Unfortunately the reproduction of the trench maps in McCarthy is not wonderful). Showing them the CWGC video 'Memorial and Memory' might be useful. It lasts 23 minutes and is available free to schools. You may be able to persuade them to send you a free copy as well.

I'll do a bit more research on this this evening when I have access to SDGW and other books in my study. No doubt other Pals will beat me to it and give you more suggestions.

[anwright]

Kerry,

As mentioned by one of the other posts, see "Magnificent but not War" by John Dixon. Mentions 1st Btn Yorks & Lancs suffering nearly 900 casualties on May 8th 1915 at the Battle of Frezenberg.

Regards,

A Wright

[markl]

Kerry,

I came across the site of Mill Hill School - They have produced study sheets for a trip to Ypres. (http://www.millhill.org.uk/pdf/tour_sheets.pdf)

They seem to have had quite strong links to Yorkshire

[Mark Hone]

As an example I did a quick bit of research on the 2nd Green Howards attack on Sanctuary Wood on 31st July 1917, the opening day of the Third Battle of Ypres. Soldiers Died in the Great War records the deaths of 2 officers and 48 men of the battalion on 31st July itself and the next few days. I took a random sample of 6 men and 1 officer from these and checked them against the CWGC database. There were named burials at Tyne Cot, Lijssenthoek, Brandhoek New and Mendinghem cemeteries and two men were commemorated on the Menin Gate. There was also one 'man of mystery', the splendidly-named Richmond Micklethwaite from Huddersfield who is recorded on SDGW but not, apparently, by the CWGC. This could be due to a spelling mistake on one of the databases.

Depending on access to SDGW (available in many libraries) and the internet you could have your cadets carry out a similar exercise and visit some of the graves on your tour. SDGW has a very flexible search facility which you could use to search for men from e.g. particular towns as well as by battalion.

[kerry]

Mark and Others,

many thnaks for all these most helpful replies. I will work through these.

Mark - what and where is 'SDGW'?

Thanks

Kerry

[kerry]

Dear All,

further to this thread, would the Sheffield Pals have included KOYLI, or DWR or were they all recruited and enroled into one (different) Regt?

Thanks.

Kerry

[CROONAERT]

further to this thread, would the Sheffield Pals have included KOYLI, or DWR or were they all recruited and enroled into one (different) Regt?

Kerry.

The Sheffield "Pals" (better known as the Sheffield "City" Battalion) were just one unit. They were the 12th Battalion of the York and Lancaster Regiment.

Dave.

[shinglma]

Kerry

SDGW = Soldier's Died in the Great War originally published in 1921 in 81 volumes. It lists the war dead in regimental and battalion order. It is now available on CD rom from Naval & military Press - see here.

Its very useful but does contain a number of inaccuracies when checked against the CWGC website or the Medal Index Cards.

Regards

Mike

[Mark Hone]

Sorry, I should have been more specific that I meant 'Soldiers Died In The Great War' by the abbreviation SDGW. Despite the various typographical errors and other mistakes on it, the CD-ROM of SDGW is an invaluable aid to the Great War researcher because of its easy to use and flexible search facility. In a few minutes you can produce a list of all soldiers who died on a particular day, from a particular battalion or who enlisted or who were born in the same town. You can't do this sort of search on the Commonwealth War Grave Commission database. However,you can then use the CWGC website to find where the men were buried or commemorated, information not recorded on 'Soldiers Died...'. The CWGC may also have additional personal details about the casualty supplied by relatives. So you can see how using these two sources of information together can help to build up a complete picture. In the case of the example I used above, in my search on SDGW I specified 2nd Battalion the Green Howards and narrowed the period down to 31st July 1917 (the date of their attack on Sanctuary Wood) and a few days later to pick up some of the men who sadly subsequently died of their wounds etc. That produced a list of 48 men (and two officers) who could then be checked on the CWGC website for details of where they were buried or commemorated.

I'm lucky enough to have my own copy of the 'Soldiers Died...' CD-ROM but it can be found in many libraries and military museums. The Local Studies section of Bury Library, for example, has a copy which you can access free of charge.

[John W]

Kerry

If you need help with the SDGW get in touch as I am not that far away from you, near Pontefract. I would also suggest a quick not to the Curator at the PWO museum in York who is very helpfull if contacted by letter.

John