Haidar Pasha

[ddycher]

All

Does anybody have any information on the September 1917 explosion at the arsenal / railway station at Haidar Pasha ? I understand this was the primary cause for munition shortages of Yilderim on their move to the Palestine front and the end of any chance of a major turkish offensive. For such a major event I can find very little.

What I have todate show varying dates from the 2nd, 6th or 23rd September - although 6th is thought to be correct. Causes ranging from a crane accident, espionage by the British Intelligence Service and allied bombing out of Mudros depending on what you read.

Any help appreciated.

Regards

Dave

[michaeldr]

The DMI telegraphed the GOC-in-C Egypt (ie; Macdonogh to Allenby) on 1st September 1917 to relay information received [21st August 1917] from 'two Turks who arrived in Switzerland recently'

Item 3 reads

"At the Stamboul (European side of Bosphorus) and Haidar Pasha (Asian side) railway stations there was considerable activity. Considerable quantities of supplies, ammunition, troops and motor transport were being moved over to Asia"

So if it was not an accident, then already by mid-August, enough was known about it for it to have been a target

The above quote is from 'Allenby in Palestine – the middle east correspondence of Field Marshal Viscount Allenby' selected and edited by Matthew Hughes

In his notes Hughes also offers the following info and refs

"A huge explosion at Haidar Pasha rail station in Istanbul (on the eastern side of the Bosphorus) on 23rd September 1917 consumed Turkish and German military equipment waiting to be railed east (and killed, it is claimed by Wilfred Castle, 1,000 people). It is not clear if the explosion was an accident or the result of sabotage by British agents. For more detail, see Hughes, Allenby and British Strategy, 54-5; Wilfred Castle, Grand Turk (1943) p.102; Cyril Cruttwell, A History of the Great War 1914-1918 (1986) p.613; Otto Liman von Sanders, Five Year in Turkey (1927) p.184; Archibald Wavell, The Palestine Campaign [1928] (1933) p.110; and Townley [or Milner?] to Harding, 21 October 1917, Milner papers, OxBod, V/C/363. See also the review of Hauptmann Simon-Eberhard's Mit dem AsienKorps zur Palestinafront, 5 January 1928 in Edmonds papers LHCMA, V/4/1/1."

regards

Michael

[ddycher]

Michael

Thanks for the ref's - we cross ref. What are your personal views ? An accident ?

Regards

Dave

[michaeldr]

Dave,

Previously I have not looked at this very closely, but I think that if it had been an air op from the Aegean then it would have been recorded and mentioned in the OH. It was passed off by the Turks as an 'accident' and they do happen don't they. But if I remember correctly, LvS was sceptical and asked the reasonable question, why should ammunition which had been handled and transported right across central and eastern Europe suddenly become so volatile or fragile when it reached Turkish hands?

regards

Michael

[ddycher]

Michael

I agree - all ref's I can find to it being anything other than an accident are single line throwaways with no detail. Tend to agree that had it been an air strike or successful sabotage there would have been alot more on it in the OH's.

That said amazing co-incidence wrt timing.

Regards

Dave

[michaeldr]

I am probably guilty (along with the DMI quoted above) of thinking of Haidar Pasha simply as a railway station, when in fact it was, as Kearsey puts it in his Summary of the Strategy and Tactics etc, the main base of the Turkish forces fighting in Asia. It was not just a rail terminus, but a huge depot which was probably over stocked at this time due to the bottle-neck formed by the unfinished tunnels through the Taurus and Amanus mountains

It was either an accident waiting to happen, or a very tempting target;

though as you suggest, probably just an amazing co-incidence

regards

Michael

[PHalsall]

Late as ever, but this might be of interest.

 

http://www.levantineheritage.com/haidarpasha-explosion.html

Sabotage was suspected from the start, however nobody claimed responsibility. However in June 1934 Blackwood’s Magazine published an article entitled ‘A bow with two strings’ that attributed the incident to a clandestine operation conducted by a Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) volunteer agent identified as an Irish Armenian doctor named George Roupin [the surname is probably a cover name as it has a French feel]. Apparently a German secret document, recovered from a fire at a headquarters at Kreuznach, had indicated a planned Turkish offensive and pinpointed the munitions at Haidar Pasha as the site where the necessary weapons and explosives were being assembled.

Although the story was retailed in fictional terms, many of its details were entirely authentic, including a very accurate description of an unnamed naval officer, “a thick-set man wearing an eye-glass and walking with a limp” who was said to be ‘the Chief of British Intelligence Service in the field’, a portrait that Mansfield Smith-Cumming [the first director of what would become the Secret Intelligence Service (SIS), also known as MI6] must have recognised. Indeed, the naval officer, who had briefed Roupin for his mission, had lost his son in the war had himself been involved in an accident on the Meaux Chaussée. The author calling himself ‘Hasta’ [Turkish for Sick], remains unknown.

 

Pete

[Slingo]

Although there is no evidence to be found why this heavy explosion ocurred the destruction of 

equipment was severe.

I assume that if it was done by Entente sabotage it already would be known to us. 

For the British there will be no reason to be found why it still should be kept secret.

it would have already been told  as a masterpiece of sabotage- David Lean-style.

Furthermore the British must have known from the start that Haidar- Pascha is a key point of

military transport given the knowledge of Ottoman railway lines. 

All was known before 1914, there were no other transport choices.

Ottoman rail network was easily overseeable.

What was not known perhaps was the amount of German and Austrian equipment & units transported.

 

kind regards, Gunther